Episode 15
4 Reasons Why Bad Relationships Keep Repeating for Empaths
"Both of you are in the quicksand and you wanna rescue them, but you can't. You have to rescue yourself before you can rescue them. Quicksands gonna pull you down." - Tami Kiekhaefer LCSW
Whether you are an expert in relationships as our guest today, or not, repetition of bad cycles can be maddening. Today, you'll learn four possible reasons why empaths continually attract the same narcissistic energy into their relationships.
Our guest today, Tami Kiekhaefer, LCSW has operated a successful psychotherapy practice since 2002. She provides individual, family and couples therapy around anxiety, depression, domestic violence, trauma, relationships, and empowerment.
Here are some key moments:
- Childhood conditioning / People Pleasing patterns
You are not alone "All you need is one hand to pull you out of the quicksand" - Raven Scott
2. Toxic positivity
3. Lack of Self-Awareness and Emotional Intelligence.
"Both of you are in the quicksand and you wanna rescue them, but you can't. You have to rescue yourself before you can rescue them. The quicksands gonna pull you down. And pull both of you down. " - Tami K LCSW [28:23]
4. Unresolved Trauma from Past
Like energy attracts like energy
- Her book: Preparing for the Jungle, avoiding Snakes and Pitfalls on the Path to Healthy Love. "
Music YouTube Library: Believe by Neffex
Transcript
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[:subscribe now.
This is season five, episode 15.
Four. Reasons why bad relationships keep repeating four empaths.
[:Because if you don't talk about what's going on and really work through that, then you can , very well stay stuck in that Mudd, like, this is just what I deserve and I guess, this is how people treat me.
[: [:Whether you are an expert in relation. as our guests today or not. Repetition of bad cycles can be maddening when it comes to relationships. Ships . Today you learn for. For possible reasons. Why certain people continually attract the same negative. Energy in their relationships.
I'm going to ask you, have you noticed a pattern of toxic relationships in your life? This is something. Something that's very common. You're not alone. And it happens to. Many of us, you may find yourself repeating. The same mistakes or entering relationships with people that bring out the worst. First in you.
psychotherapy practice since:Pitfalls on the path to healthy love. So let's dive into the conversation
[: [: [: [: [: [: [: [:Which is working in so many different fields with corrections and mental hospitals, and then outpatient schools. Yeah. I finally opened my private practice about 20 years ago, and I've been doing this ever since.
[: [: [:What I wanted to talk about today is a lot of times I have these conversations with clients and with others. Myself personally experienced this amazing awakening, right? We're having this great awakening that there are narcissists surrounding us, and sometimes we call other people who aren't technically N P D narcissists, just cuz it helps, it makes us, I guess, helps us put a label on like distancing ourselves, because whatever it is, they're being manipulative, they're being toxic. But then you start to see them everywhere and you're. So there are some contributing factors to that. Why do you think some people attract that type of energy?
[:And, a lot of times , the scales get tipped and I think sometimes, Put way too much in and start to want to change people who really don't see any need to change themselves. And then you can get stuck in that rabbit hole and it just takes you down. So I think that sometimes there's that, that want to fix.
Sometimes there's, a people pleasing aspect where, you just want to be liked, you wanna be loved, you wanna be accepted, you wanna be taken in. And as long as. , you can, sometimes people can morph into what they think that this other person wants, and then that doesn't work out so well either because you can just sort of lose yourself.
And then sometimes it's trauma related where you're recreating a situation that you've been in in your past, and because you want to try to do it differently or you want to. Apply the things that you've learned. And so sometimes we create those situations so that we can, try to deal and cope with traumas that we've had in our past.
[: [: [:What happened to me?
[:Like those are all very well intended, but also extremely authoritarian. Like it doesn't leave for any autonomy. It doesn't leave for any critical thinking curiosity some may B at the idea that that could be emotional abuse, but in certain situations, if it's repetitive, , it can be emotional abuse, but it's normalized because it's the parent doing it for the children's own good.
And , I know a lot of narcissists will sugarcoat their abuse with that. Oh, I'm the only one who cares for you, so you need to do it this way, my way or the highway. And , it's the same normalized bs.
[:I, I think , as a kid, you look up to, adults who are in those roles and it's just, well, they must know what's going on so clearly I don't know what's going on. And then that second guessing of your own intuition , and gut feeling starts to.
[:And so then that then conditions you to, to silence your inner rebel and to silence your amazing.
[: [:You don't
just wake up because everything's wonderful, that
you're gonna continue in your dream.
[:Because if you don't talk about what's going on and really work through that, then you can , very well stay stuck in that Mudd, like, this is just what I deserve and I guess, this is how people treat me. And you just start to really believe that. So, . I really encourage people to get out there and talk and share your story and, and just know that it doesn't have to be like that.
[: [: [: [:If you stay silent, then they continue to have the power.
[: [:There's at least one person. I mean, you're listening to this podcast, so you've got me. You can always reach out to me. You've got all the amazing guests here. You can reach out to them one hand to pull you out to realize you're not alone, and then all of a sudden you'll realize you'll attract more of those friends and that teamwork to help you get unstuck and out of this situ.
[: [: [:And that was
your one person. Mm-hmm.
[: [:And then the other person says About what? And then even if you say, no, nevermind, nevermind. It's already out there. You've already said I need to talk. And so they will pull it out of you.
[: [:, and I think that a little bit of that is good, but , too much, of a good thing turns bad. Whether it's too much chocolate, too much working out, too much work, too much whatever, too much of a good thing can always turn into not a good thing. So, as I am a very, optimistic person, and I like to have that positive outlook on things, I, I definitely agree.
I think that it can quickly slip into denial. , it can, turn into , when you quiet your inner voice, when you quiet down what isn't working , and what your gut feeling and your intuition is telling you. I think that it definitely takes a hit on your confidence. And the more quiet you are, the more passive you become, you can find yourself quickly in a negative situation, in a codependent situation.
And I think that even the person who, and, and you've seen it probably I've seen it, that overly positive person, there will be a point in time where that volcano erupts and you better watch out. It can, because it, it has to go somewhere. So I feel like it's either gonna be internalized.
where you've got anxiety and depression and your immune system takes a hit. So maybe you get sick more often, you're not sleeping as well. Or it's externalized where you see someone who's been passive, passive, passive, all of a sudden come out with this aggression and you just are like, what? Where did this come from?
Well, it's because we're human and we can't just stay stifled like that forever.
[:They turn you into the narcissist, they turn you into the crazy one that needs to take medicine, and they just put that big fog over all of the abuse that they've been putting onto you and you've been putting up with, and then all of a sudden you're the crazy one.
[:It's like they light the, the flame.
Yeah.
[: [:What's that? But the more you learn about what it actually looks like, I think it's so validating because you can go, I heard those exact same words. Oh my God, I felt that exact same feeling. I went through that exact situation. And so the validation that comes from understanding gaslighting and narcissistic behavior.
Is, is the validation that you're just, you're craving it for so long, but it's hard to get , from your narcissistic partner or person, whoever. Yeah, so validation is huge.
[:You may have even moved out, right? This is what I did like seven times and then you move out and you're like, oh, I think I overreacted. Like I feel really guilty about like exploding. That was not very me. And it was over something so minor, right? It was like you said, it's because it was that last fuse.
So of course it's not gonna be over anything major. It's gonna be minor cause we've been holding. and then you hoover yourself back in or they hoover you in and they're like, oh baby, just come back. Whatever. And it would always be like, well, if you just do this, then everything will be okay.
It was never him. When he would change, it would be me. And I would also take that on because I felt guilty about overreacting. So it's like this perpetual control mechanism that they have on you. You're right. And so unless you. You reacted was like affirm you reacted was valid. Your reactions and your emotions are valid even if they're over exaggerated, right?
Because you've been holding it in, it's okay, you're human. And then the gaslighting is like, don't let them blame you that you are the narcissist and you are the bad one. , it's just so difficult when you're in it, but it's like on the outside we're telling you, just evaluate and stop and pause and don't feel that guilt and shame cuz guilt and shame's gonna hold you in their dark energy.
[:I'm not the. , but you're the one who's staying. You're the one that's allowing this behavior to impact your life. And while you can't change somebody else, you can change how you react to that situation. And that's a hard one to hear because it requires that self-reflection. And I think that that's the most empowering thing that you can do for yourself is do the self-reflection and understand you're contributing to that toxic relationship.
Because , you bought into it , and now you've gotta really, really do that work and, talk to someone and get a different level of support and build your confidence back up and trust your internal dialogue , and help yourself. I think that that's, there's so much power in.
[:Should I be changing something? That's, that moment is where you need. Cognitive awareness that this, I'm getting pulled back into the trap and I am letting this person abuse me again. And then like, for me, I had to shake my head and I was like, no. Nope. That is not true. This is the truth.
It's like, wake up from the hypnotism, really. Right. Shake your head. But , it is part of that gaining your control and power back
is not letting them abuse you anymore.
[:I think especially after you've been in a relationship with a narcissistic person , or experienced emotional, physical, sexual. . Well, there's so many different types of abuse, but after you've experienced that, I think it's really hard to receive that constructive criticism because your claws just immediately come out and , you go into fight or flight.
So I think , that's another empowering aspect is to just take that pause and, do some self-reflection and so that you can, do things differently.
[:like you say, pause and say, where do I need healing in this? Of course, you've been criticized your entire relationship for how many years from this narcissist. now someone who is healthy trying to help you, give you constructive criticism.
Are you able to, and where is their intent? Right? And that's always thing that's hard for someone who's been gaslit so much is like, , where is the intention of this person coming from? Is it healthy and loving, or is it just controlling and manipulative? And I think that's the hardest part. You just really have to tap into your intuition , and see the actions versus hearing the.
[: [:It's like insanity, but it happens.
[:Is this serving? and, I have an 80% rule for myself and my 80% rule is I've got to be. at least 80% happy, and, and that gives 20% for a bad day or whatever. I, I mean, I shoot for a little higher, but I mean, I don't care whether it's a relationship, whether it's a job, whether it's a pair of shoes.
If I am, dipping below that 80% for too long, I have to reevaluate what's going on in my. , and that just gives me , that idea of an 80%, , when you're in a relationship and you say, oh, well we travel all over the place and we, and then you think, okay, well we went camping and Oh yeah, but then we fought, oh, we went to the beach.
Oh yeah. But we fought there too. Oh, I remember we took this amazing trip to Italy. Oh yeah. But he left me at a cafe. I remember. So it's just, I think when you look back at that and, , that's that rationalization that can kick in.
[: [: [:You being bored or ruining the trip, like your attitude is ruining the trip, not my actions. You can say, oh, I didn't like how you did that as a healthy partner, and say, oh, okay, sorry. I didn't even realize I was doing that. Blah, blah, blah. Move on. But the narcissist is like, you ruined everything. This is horrible.
Why did you do that? It's like, you're overreacting like a two year old. I don't like, I don't understand, but it's important to stop justifying. I love that. Yeah.
Yeah.
[:But I think that, that something that can be helpful is understanding what causes narcissism and behind narcissism is, I mean, , , my theory that I really align to is the attachment theory, but that personality disorders are formed between that attachment period, and that's between zero and three years old is, and then it's just, it's nature nurture.
I think you're born into this world with a, a certain personality, and then that attachment period is when you really learn how to trust your environment and trust other people. And, and based on your caregivers and how you were. Up and during that period can really define some lanes that you fall into.
And, and oftentimes, I mean, look back at a narcissistic person, maybe they, there's so many insecurities that they have, there's so many things , they're probably the most fragile people in the world. And, and so, as. As a sensitive person, as an empathic person. If you can try to shift that and look at it and feel, almost, feel sorry for those people.
You don't have to be with them, but you can still have compassion. You can still have compassion and, and look at it that you know God. Yeah. I hope that you fix yourself. I hope that you get the help that you need. I hope that you can find your own sense of being empower. , but I can't. I can't do it. I'm out.
So being able to have that boundary, I don't know, sometimes I think it helps to shift that into having compassion for that person. It's easier to leave.
[:And I wonder if that was a trick that he did,
but
[: , and you're gonna burn out. [: [:They're so stuck in their victimhood and they're self-loathing. They have to be willing, and they're not at that vibration to be willing to heal. You can't heal
them.
[: [: [: [: [: [:I'm 100%. It's like, both of you are in the quicksand and you wanna rescue them, but you can't. You have to rescue yourself before you can rescue them. Quicksands gonna pull you down
[:right? Yeah.
Yeah. It's that outside rope. It's the hand. I loved your Hand.
analogy. I just need a hand.
Yeah,
[: [: [:Right? Because that's what you're used to. Tell us about your book and the work that you're, you've been doing.
[:And, I started out, it starts out with understanding your family roles, how you grew up, why you're attracted to certain types of people, goes into the attachment and understanding personality disorders. . Then it goes into communication and how we learn to communicate and what's healthy communication and what's, unhealthy.
And then, going into confidence and understanding red flags and what you really want in a relationship. And understanding toxic behaviors and intimacy and, and how fear can drive you to stay in a bad relationship. So basically it's like, you preparing yourself and becoming the most confident person.
So that you can get out there and find a healthy relationship, and it can be for people who are out there in the dating world, but it can also be for people who are in a relationship that's just not working very well and trying to understand. How are we fighting? Everyone's gonna fight cuz there's no perfect relationship.
But how are we resolving our conflicts? And are these unresolved issues turning into resentments that are killing our relationship? So it's like therapy in a box. And I lived this and I just started, all my sticky notes all over the place and pulling them together and I.
I, oh my gosh. I just, I wrote a book and then , I found a publisher , who took it up and published it for me and, and it's just been an amazing experience, but yeah.
[: [:, I think that there's, so many people out there who are just going through the motions and they don't understand. Why am I doing this? Why do I keep getting into these bad relationships? Why do I keep attracting this type of person? And, I almost feel like, oh, I cracked the code in my own life.
And I'm like, I have to share this because it's just been phenomenal. And I, I met, my. Now fiance. And, it's probably the most healthy relationship I've ever been in.
And after I understood how, I became so much more empowered. I feel like you put that energy out there. and you attract like energy when you're in that space. And that's when he came into my life and I thought there it was. I get it. Yeah.
[:When you go out into the dating field, , like energy meets like energy. So if you're going out there wounded and hurt and resentful and angry at yourself or the narcissist or your breakup, or life in general, , then you're gonna attract the toxic person that also is resonating and resentment and anger and hurt, which is the narcissist.
So interesting. Summary of our episode and totally ties into your book. It's
[:I can be your neighbor. I can, have a, some type of distant friendship or, but it's all about boundaries and, and knowing that there's people everywhere just trying to make it through. But it's up to us to decide who are we going to really be with. , and that's the power.
[: [: [: [: [: [: [:Tag us at Raven Scott Show, and Tammy k. Her links to her socials will be in the.
I really enjoyed that conversation and listening back to it as well. I just want to summarize them for all of you who are note takers. So the first. Reason why empaths? Seem to attract. The same toxic cycle pattern with narcissist. Desist. Here's number one.
Childhood conditioning. We're just. Not an abuse and things were normalized. Number two. Toxic positivity. Avoiding some reality and real harsh truths that help you. You evaluate. With that clear, concise. Mind. Number three is lack of self-awareness. Awareness and emotional intelligence. Diligence, which all that means is just go to the brain.
Jim go to the emotional gym. And number four is unresolved trauma. From your past. In other relationships, if you haven't resolved the pain and the trauma from the previous narcissistic relationship. Those will crop up again. It's just like weeding your garden. Right. Make sure you pluck the whole thing from the root. So it doesn't grow back.
And remember like energy attracts, like energy. So listen to the previous episode. About raising your vibrational frequency with Sanjib episode 12. And an episode 13, how. How to realign your heart chakra after narcissistic abuse. Those are great ones. To follow up with and really lock in as information you listening to the podcast. Podcast is you going to that brain gym so good Job for you Awesome. And remember Always keep being unique light Shining We'll see you next time
