Episode 58
Surviving Childhood Trauma: STOP Spiritual Bypassing Healing from Narcissistic Parental Alienation with Simon Timm
Are you escaping your emotions that need to be self-parented by escaping into spiritual practices?
In this episode, Raven Scott hosts an enlightening conversation with Simon Timm, an experienced meditation and mindfulness teacher and Hindu Monk.
Simon discusses his traumatic childhood experience of parental alienation and psychological abuse from his Narcissistic stepmother and how this led to years of depression.
He details the personal development journey that began with him reconnecting with his estranged mother at 20 years old. This led to Simon's 16 years as a Hindu monk and eventually his existential crisis, triggering another transformative stage in his life.
Simon elaborates on the 'Self-salutation' approach he developed for meditation, focusing on acceptance and self-love, and the courage to face deeply buried emotions. He stresses the importance of addressing and resolving our inner complexities rather than running away from them.
Find his method and lovely emails at selfsalutation.com
All Links are on the Podcast Page
Healing Depression Naturally from Parental Alienation Syndrome due to a Narcissistic Step Mother
0:00 Surviving Childhood Trauma: A Monk's Journey to Healing from Narcissistic Parental Alienation
00:00 Introduction to the Podcast
01:28 Guest Introduction: Simon Tim's Journey
04:07 Simon's Childhood Trauma
11:32 Reconnecting with His Mother
15:47 Transition into Spirituality
18:22 The Role of Meditation in Healing
23:50 The Power of Self-Love and Acceptance
24:35 Understanding the Inner Critic
30:28 The Culture of Perfectionism
31:24 The Journey to Self-Acceptance
32:13 The Power of Self-Love
34:09 The Concept of Reparenting Yourself
36:05 The Courage to Confront Yourself
36:56 The Process of Emotional Integration
37:58 The Complexity of Emotions
38:22 The Challenge of Emotional Excavation
45:54 The Power of Self-Honesty
54:19 The Practice of Self-Salutation
54:57 The Role of Emotions in Relationships
55:37 The Importance of Emotional Intelligence
58:36 Conclusion: The Path to Healing
Transcript
My father and my stepmother succeeded.
2
:in getting my sister and
I to turn on our mother.
3
:And so they actually, they got
custody of us when when we were four.
4
:They kidnapped us for a weekend,
but ended up getting custody of us.
5
:Wow.
6
:And, and then there was a brutal
battle that ensued for years.
7
:And when when I was 10, my father and
stepmother sat me down and my stepmother
8
:said, you know, you were too young to
understand this before, but actually all
9
:the trouble you've been having in school.
10
:, she said all of that was actually
not your fault, because it's your
11
:mother, and your mother is evil.
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:I think what happens when you
summons your courage is that
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:we're not just dealing with.
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:A conscious level of process here, we're
dealing with a, a very subconscious
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:immediate, it's like a knee jerk reaction.
16
:But if you focus on cultivating the
courage to, to approach your heart and
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:to approach your feelings, it's like you
get in a heightened state of strength.
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:Welcome back to Narcissist podcast,
where we explore all of the spiritual
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:ways to heal from narcissistic abuse.
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:I am your host, Raven Scott.
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:And today we are blessed with our
extraordinary guest, Simon Tim.
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:He is a seasoned meditation and
mindfulness teacher, whose journey
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:into the realms of self discovery
has been nothing short of remarkable.
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:Simon dedicated an incredible 16 years
of his life as a Hindu monk, immersing
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:himself in the ancient practices of
meditation and spiritual discipline.
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:However, when he had his existential
crisis and he decided to transition
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:away from monastic life in 2011, Simon
found himself facing a new set of
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:challenges, his biggest challenges of yet.
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:And yes, he did have a narcissistic
stepmother through his childhood.
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:but this one, recognizing the need for
meditation practice that goes beyond.
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:Simply transcending or rising above
the negative feelings and shoving them
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:down under the rug, Simon embarked
on a profound exploration of various
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:modalities of personal transformation.
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:His journey led him to
create the self salutation.
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:It's a unique approach to meditation
that aims to address and resolve
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:the complexities of our inner world.
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:And also he has a master's in.
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:Ethics from Yale.
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:Simon brings both scholarly wisdom
and practical wisdom to the table.
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:So I'm really excited for you to meet him.
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:So get ready for this enlightening
conversation as we delve into Simon's
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:unique perspective on being a narcissistic
abuse victim, meditation, mindfulness, and
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:transformative power of self salutation.
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:This is definitely a conversation
you won't want to miss.
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:So make sure you have your headphones
in, you hit that subscribe button,
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:And you share this with a friend.
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:Let's get into it.
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:Raven: Welcome, Simon.
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:Thank you so much for being here.
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:Simon: Thanks so much, Raven.
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:I'm, I'm excited to be here with you.
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:I love what you're doing.
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:So, so it's great to be here.
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:Raven: I appreciate that.
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:I appreciate you listening and
really investing in that as well and
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:understanding the audience because I
think you're going to bring so much
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:love and you're going to bring so much
I think just good nuggets , for them.
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:So I'm excited to dive into this
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:Simon: with you.
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:Yeah.
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:Thank you.
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:Thank you.
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:I grew, I grew up, my stepmother
was a serious narcissist.
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:And so I grew up really under the thumb
of a narcissist and it's something that
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:I have a lot of experience with and
a lot of you know, empathy for others
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:who are, who are going through it.
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:So,
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:Raven: yeah.
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:Well, let's start with that.
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:Tell me more about that.
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:How old were you when she was
introduced into your life?
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:Simon: I was two or three when,
when my father connect, my parents
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:divorced when I was like six
months old and my father connected
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:with my stepmother very early on.
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:And so from really from the time I
can remember, she was in my life.
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:I actually do remember the, the moment
I met her at first, and I remember
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:resisting her profoundly from that,
from that very first encounter,
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:which is maybe not uncommon for, you
know, kids of with a divorced parent,
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:but, but I remember that, and, and
it was always, a struggle with her.
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:She passed on a couple of years ago
now, but it was, it was profound
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:psychological abuse that I endured there,
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:Raven: for sure.
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:So was she the kind of person that
had like certain expectations,
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:you had to meet them and like you
were like an extension of her?
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:What kind of stepmother and narc was she?
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:Simon: Yeah, she was yeah, she
had impossible expectations.
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:She was, she she had a the irony of
my childhood is that she had a Ph.
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:D.
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:in child psychology
from Harvard University.
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:Wow.
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:So, she was the authority, and
when she spoke, she always Let
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:me know that it was her clinical.
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:Raven: Yeah, like you better do it
this way or like she knew how to
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:parent you because she was the expert.
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:Yeah,
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:Simon: and I literally, I mean,
it was an attempt at creating an
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:endearing term, but I called her doc.
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:That was our name for her.
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:So the fact that she was a doctor, had a
doctorate, she wielded that profoundly.
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:And she had a constant, she had incredibly
high expectations and they were constantly
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:changed when she really went under.
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:Like I think when I was around
10, she had a nervous breakdown.
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:She didn't get tenure in her position
and she was flailing professionally.
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:And my dad was an artist
and wasn't supporting us.
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:So she really caved during that time.
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:And those are the most, those are
the darkest years where, where I
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:was just really under her thumb
and she had expectations and those
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:expectations were Just unmeetable.
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:It wasn't even possible because they
changed all the time and You know, I
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:hate it like the place was supposed to
be clean I had to clean my sister and
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:I were cleaning we could there was not
possible for us to clean the house in
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:a way that satisfied her expectations
because No matter what we did.
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:There was some rule that she
had established that was And she
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:Raven: didn't communicate it, probably.
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:Or she
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:Simon: hadn't communicated it.
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:Or it was, yeah.
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:Raven: The target's always
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:Simon: moving.
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:The target was moving.
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:The target was us.
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:Ultimately.
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:Yeah,
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:Raven: you thought the
target was getting clean.
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:Didn't realize you had
the target on your back.
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:I was the target, yeah.
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:Oh my gosh.
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:And how did your
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:Simon: mother She was profoundly
controlling and oversaw.
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:Everything in powerful
ways, and, you know.
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:Raven: And she was the breadwinner,
so then she kind of, like your, your
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:dad kind of gave her that, right?
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:Simon: Exactly.
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:Exactly.
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:Huh.
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:And my dad needed her in those ways,
so he was, you know, caved to her,
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:and he was gone a lot of the time.
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:My dad was in the theater, and
so he was gone at nights, so
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:we were home alone with her.
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:It was yeah.
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:Yeah, it was rough.
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:I, I, I don't, I think she was maybe
borderline alcoholic, but she was the
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:kind of alcoholic where like when she
finally made a martini or bought herself
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:a scotch, then I relaxed because that's
when I knew, like, she was, she, the
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:pressure would be off a little bit.
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:So Yeah.
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:I know some kids with their
parents, alcohol is very different
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:and, and that's a bad time.
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:But for me, that was when I
knew like, okay, she's going
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:to tone it down a little bit.
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:Things are going to get easier now.
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:Raven: That relaxed her neuroses.
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:Simon: Yeah.
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:Yeah.
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:So.
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:Raven: And you were with her
most of the time or where was
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:your mother in the picture?
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:Does she?
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:Simon: Well, so she and I, I
underwent a trauma called severe
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:parental alienation as a child.
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:So I think in a lot of divorcees,
a lot of divorced couples,
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:they'll try and get their kid to
turn on the, the other parent.
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:Right.
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:Yeah.
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:My father and my stepmother succeeded.
166
:in getting my sister and
I to turn on our mother.
167
:And so they actually, they got
custody of us when when we were four.
168
:They kidnapped us for a weekend,
but ended up getting custody of us.
169
:Wow.
170
:And, and then there was a brutal
battle that ensued for years.
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:And when we were 10.
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:When I was 10, my sister was a
little older than me, she was 13.
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:When I was 10, my father and stepmother
sat me down and my stepmother said, you
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:know, you were too young to understand
this before, but actually all the
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:trouble you've been having in school.
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:I was in trouble all the
time when I was a kid.
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:I was like getting in fights and you
know, doing crazy things and yeah.
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:So she said all of, I was at nightmares,
she said all of, actually, anyway,
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:she said all of that was actually
not your fault, because it's your
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:mother, and your mother is evil.
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:And she's trying to manipulate and
control you and therefore we want
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:to move you across the country.
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:And so we moved from Boston,
Massachusetts, where I was born to
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:Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and I don't, you
couldn't get away with it today, but
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:they just Took us away and we said,
Oh, we're just, we just want to spend
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:the summer with my dad and stepmom.
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:We don't want to do split
custody for the summer.
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:We'll start up again in the fall.
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:But in the fall, she went
and knocked on the door.
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:You know, we were
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:Raven: gone.
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:You guys were gone.
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:Oh my gosh.
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:Simon: So we severed Oh.
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:Ties with her.
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:Heartbreaking.
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:It's heartbreaking.
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:Yeah.
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:Yeah.
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:Did you meet back up with her?
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:Actually, she came out to Wisconsin.
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:She tracked us down.
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:She was able to track us down.
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:She came out to Wisconsin and I,
we met her in a park and, and told
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:her to never contact us ever again.
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:Hmm.
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:And, and so I have.
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:You know, etched in my heart is this
memory of watching her walk away
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:from us in the park, just shattered.
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:broken person.
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:And it took, you know, of course it took
a lot of therapy to get to the point when
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:I was 20, I reconnected with, with my,
with my with my real mother and underwent
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:a lot of therapy, a lot of counseling.
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:And it took a long time to be able to,
you know, even recognize that to speak
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:of heal, start to heal those wounds.
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:And then it wasn't until I was in my
40s when I realized the inner damage
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:that turning on my mother had for
me and realizing that as a 10 year
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:old, I didn't just process it, that
my mother was evil because who am I?
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:I'm my mother's son and therefore
I internalized this sense of my
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:own self really also is being evil.
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:And and, and sort of the, the, the
moment of, of real pain there is
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:that moment of, you know, how I just
turned on my mother and seeing her.
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:You know, as a really defeated
person walking away in the park.
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:So, so I've had to do a lot of
healing around, around all of that.
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:Was profoundly depressed
as a college student.
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:By the time I got to college,
I was profoundly depressed and
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:I, I went to a therapist and.
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:It was a priest I went to him
for counseling and after a few
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:sessions, he said, well, tell
me something about your mom.
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:You never mentioned your mom.
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:And I said, ah, I haven't, you
know, talked to my mom for 10 years,
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:really, but, but it's not a big deal.
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:I'm over it.
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:And he's like,
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:Raven: ah, that's it.
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:Simon: Yeah.
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:And he said, he said, Oh, really?
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:And the way he said it, it just
kind of like, hooked in my mind and
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:I was like, he didn't believe me.
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:I was like, I was so frustrated.
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:I was like, why didn't he believe me?
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:He should believe me.
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:They did this kind of weird logic
in my mind, like, he's a priest.
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:He should believe me.
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:Like somehow, you know.
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:Right.
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:Raven: You were telling the
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:Simon: truth.
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:Yeah.
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:Yeah, so, so he helped me reconnect with
her and, and, and, and changed my life
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:and it was the most courageous thing that
I've, yet today, I still just remember
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:just that tremendous fear I had in,
in actually reconnecting with her and
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:finding out she was, She was not evil.
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:She is not evil.
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:Yeah.
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:In fact, she became a therapist.
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:She had to undergo all kinds
of therapy herself, and that
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:prompted her to become a therapist.
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:Yeah.
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:She's been very helpful
and wonderful in my life.
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:So, so there was a happy ending to that.
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:That's
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:Raven: amazing.
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:A happy ending.
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:But all through this, I have two
things running through my mind.
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:I'm like, okay, so you went to college
and you got your, was it master's in,
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:Simon: Well, I did my undergraduate,
I did my master's in my four,
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:you know, just ten years ago.
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:So, yeah, I did a master's in ethics ten
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:Raven: years ago.
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:In ethics, right.
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:And then You also, we have to
address the whole elephant, you
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:know, white elephant in the room.
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:You also are a Hindu monk, like
when did you transition into that?
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:Simon: Well, after college.
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:So, in college, as I mentioned,
I was profoundly depressed.
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:And, I went through therapy.
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:I came to a point of, of therapy where
I felt like I lifted my head out of the,
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:the need to be like totally immersed in,
in, yeah, in the therapeutic process and
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:the healing process and I could like see
the world around me and, and everything.
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:But I wasn't able, I was on medication,
I was on Prozac at the time, I was on
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:lithium and Prozac for a period of time.
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:And, I wasn't able to get off medication
and I would try to get off it and, and
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:lapse in a way and, and that prompted
a kind of an existential crisis of a
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:different sort where it's like every
day I was taking, you know, when I would
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:take my medication, just wondering, like,
like, so is this the rest of my life?
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:And why is it that I
can't live with myself.
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:How is it that I can't
just live with myself?
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:And ultimately that was the seed of
what became a real spiritual journey.
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:And I, I went on a quest
to find other ways of.
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:Addressing the mental anguish that I,
that I was going through and, and that
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:led me to an ashram in California.
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:And, and as many spiritual
quests end up, I don't know,
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:Raven: enough in ashrams.
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:You know, in an ashram,
it just makes total sense.
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:Simon: So yeah, so I encountered and
I really experienced meditation as
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:helping me in a profound way, just
helping me to be with myself, to sit
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:with myself, to experience life and
shift my, my mentality in profound ways.
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:So, so I got very immersed in
and lived as a monk for 16 years.
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:Yeah, I didn't expect that when I moved
in, I just thought, oh, I'll try it out,
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:but I loved it and loved the life and
it was quite good to me in many, many
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:ways, until I came to a point where I
uncovered what I sometimes call is like
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:the trade secret of meditators, like
trade secret in, in the sense of like
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:this, the secret that people who meditate
know but don't want other people to know
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:about, which is, which is that Meditation
can can be wonderful and helpful and
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:I love meditation and teach meditation
and I spend a lot of time meditating.
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:Mm hmm.
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:But meditation can also
be a way of escaping.
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:Yeah.
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:Yeah.
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:And so I, what I uncovered was that,
like the point that I had shared
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:just earlier about how, Oh, wow.
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:When I embrace this idea that my mother
was evil, how that also impacted my
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:own view and feelings about myself.
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:That was just totally repressed.
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:That was, that was way below the surface.
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:Yeah.
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:And so we can use.
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:meditation as a way, even, or even
just in daily, that's a very deep
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:example, but just in daily exchanges
with people, meditation can be a way
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:where, oh, I can lift myself up now
to this place and find a little peace.
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:And then, and, Come back to the world.
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:And even though things are a bit of a
mess in my life, just kind of not really
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:deal with it and go on with it because
I'm okay, because I'm able to lift
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:up to this little place now and then.
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:So it's like a bit like a drug.
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:I mean, it's way better for you, but, but
it's a bit, it can be escapism like that.
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:And so I, you know, it's, In the
end, had to confront the reality that
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:there's a lot of stuff still in my
heart and the, you know, a few years
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:of therapy, unfortunately, in your
20s is, is not enough to resolve
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:systemic profound childhood trauma.
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:Yeah.
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:And, and so I had to come back and revisit
those things and reprocess those things
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:and, and reapproach my, my own way of
being in the world and in a new way.
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:And did
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:Raven: you find yourself diving
into like somatic is a real hot
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:topic now, but essentially it's like
processing trauma through your body.
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:Versus trying to escape
it through your head.
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:Simon: Yeah.
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:Yeah, I did.
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:I did.
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:I very much did that.
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:And so I participated in and still,
still do practice called core energetics.
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:I'm not sure if that's
a modality that you're.
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:familiar with.
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:No.
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:But it's a somatic therapy and it's a way
of, you know, moving your body so that
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:you can release the, the feelings that
are, that are, that are buried there.
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:It's incredibly helpful.
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:And I also developed a form of
meditation, which is what I now
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:teach called the self salutation.
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:And it's a essentially.
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:What I learned as I was going through the
different modalities of transformation
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:and taking seminars and going to retreats
and doing all kinds of, of, of different
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:trainings and trying to understand myself.
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:I studied psychology for a year
at Pacifica Graduate Institute,
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:which is a depth psychology.
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:Counseling program, like a
Jungian psychology program.
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:So what I fundamentally came to after
a lot of probing in this, in this realm
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:of personal transformation was that
actually the secret to transformation
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:was not necessarily changing myself
as much as changing my relationship.
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:With myself in two ways, that's profound.
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:Yeah.
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:Yeah.
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:And that little shift kind of
stepping back in a, in a, in a sense
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:and, and really looking at that is
the essence of the self salutation
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:and the practice that I teach now.
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:And there's two components to it.
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:There's two core components to it.
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:That are sort of, like, seem
at least initially to be
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:in tension with each other.
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:They feel like fundamental opposites,
but they're not, ultimately.
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:I think they're, it's a
paradoxical relationship.
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:They're really in harmony with each other.
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:But the, the first thing is we need to
learn how to love and accept ourselves.
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:In profound ways, in ways that pretty
much all the ways that we're hard on
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:ourself, like all those places we think
that we need to be hard on ourself,
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:or the problem is I'm not hard enough
on myself, like all of those ways,
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:we actually this, the solution is to
unplug that inner critic or really inner
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:judge and, and learn to shower ourself
with profound love and acceptance.
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:Where do you
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:Raven: think that comes from?
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:Like that self critic, the inner
critic, because we seem to all have
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:it and it seems to be like huge
and all of us when we like really.
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:Yeah.
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:Have raw moments with
each other in a minute.
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:Yeah.
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:Yeah.
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:Always feeling like an imposter.
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:Simon: Yeah.
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:Yeah.
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:I, I guess my understanding of
the inner critic is that it's, we
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:internalize the worst of our parents.
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:Mm hmm.
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:We internalize their judgments of us.
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:In, in their worst format, and it's
so threatening for children, you
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:know, when, when, when we experience
that from, from parents, but
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:Raven: What if you had like a super
loving parent who only showered on
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:praise, because I have experiences
where I would, I wouldn't believe him.
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:I'd be like.
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:He's just saying that because you're
my dad and now it's crazy like I feel
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:like Pete and repeat I'm like feeling
the same thing with my my youngest.
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:I'm like, I didn't I'm I'm a
I'm praising you She's like, ah,
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:you know, she gets all negative.
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:I'm like, okay, what's happening here?
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:There's another pattern.
407
:We got a break But it seems like
it just kind of sometimes For
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:some people, it appears out of
nowhere, like it's internal.
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:Simon: Yeah, yeah, yeah, well, you know,
I think maybe you're right, ultimately,
410
:probably there is some part of it where,
411
:I guess that gets into a deeper kind
of existential question about, about
412
:these things, but I, I would say
ultimately, yeah, we all come into
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:this world with certain lessons that
we have to learn and certain thing,
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:ways that we have to Grow and so are
in one sense, it's kind of written in
415
:Raven: the stars.
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:Simon: Yeah, it's kind of written
in the stars and our, our parents
417
:externalize it in a way, but it, it,
the interesting thing about it, just
418
:in a, so you know, that I'm, I'm sure
that in relationships, we'll kind
419
:of see the shadow of our parents.
420
:And, and the, we respond to the shadow
of our parents, it's, like, maybe,
421
:especially with your intimate partner,
my intimate part, my spouse is really
422
:nothing like my stepmother in any way.
423
:She's the most loving, kind,
you know, she has none of that.
424
:Yeah.
425
:But, there's Like sometimes like a
little shadow of perfectionism or
426
:something like that that mimics what
my stepmother had and that terrifies
427
:me in a profound way when it shouldn't.
428
:I have nothing to fear with.
429
:My spouse.
430
:Mm hmm.
431
:Yeah.
432
:So, but I'm not responding so much to my
spouse as I'm responding to my stepmother.
433
:Right.
434
:Right?
435
:Yeah.
436
:And, and so so I think that ultimately
there's a way in which our parents
437
:Are just doing that on a higher, same
thing on a higher level and we're in
438
:internal, they kind of externalize
something and it's not even really them.
439
:It's actually just kind of coming through
them in the same, in the same way.
440
:Mm hmm.
441
:Raven: Makes sense.
442
:Yeah.
443
:And sometimes I'm thinking through, it's
also not what they say it's what they
444
:do and it's like how they act when they
don't realize they're doing something.
445
:Yeah.
446
:That's how we learn as children
is through example and then we
447
:pick up on that and we do that.
448
:You know.
449
:That's true.
450
:Simon: That's true.
451
:Yeah.
452
:And sometimes maybe they're withholding
a judgment that they have and, and we
453
:know that they have it and they don't.
454
:Yeah.
455
:We can
456
:Raven: energetically feel the judgment.
457
:We can
458
:Simon: feel like there's something there.
459
:And kids of course are
phenomenally perceptive.
460
:Raven: So.
461
:Very perceptive and intuitive.
462
:Yeah.
463
:Yeah.
464
:Yeah.
465
:But I, yeah, you're right about that.
466
:We do attract, there's so many
different guests that have
467
:been on talking about that.
468
:We attract that trauma wound
that we're trying to heal
469
:subconsciously without knowing it.
470
:Simon: Yeah.
471
:Yeah.
472
:And that is exactly what I think
is happening is that ultimately
473
:we're trying to heal from it.
474
:And we it's a compulsive
kind of compulsion to like
475
:draw that scenario again.
476
:And sometimes we kind of
like win out this time.
477
:Raven: Over control it.
478
:Right.
479
:Yeah.
480
:I love how you said that.
481
:Win out.
482
:And that's not the goal
is to fix them or win out.
483
:Yeah.
484
:Yeah.
485
:It's like almost recognize it,
process it, and then let it go.
486
:Simon: Yeah.
487
:Yeah.
488
:Raven: So there's so much
talk about the self love.
489
:I think you were talking about the
self love, like self love, self care.
490
:We see it all over on
social media, everywhere.
491
:Yeah.
492
:What is the real true nature,
like of certain practices?
493
:Because I know there's a
variety of practices, but.
494
:Simon: Yeah, that's such a great,
that's such a great question and
495
:it's so true that, and I'm happy
that it's out there and that it's
496
:permeating culture in a way, this idea.
497
:Because it's because it's so valuable.
498
:I was totally opposed to it forever.
499
:I was like, oh no, get me away from this.
500
:I just thought it was, I don't know
I don't know what I was, I was afraid
501
:that a little self love was going
to ruin me somehow, I don't know.
502
:Raven: You'd become entitled or something?
503
:Yeah, yeah,
504
:Simon: I don't know, like
somehow it's gonna, I don't know.
505
:Too soft?
506
:Raven: Because especially with men,
right, self love, self care is like,
507
:oh, I'm not going to be a pussy.
508
:Simon: Exactly, exactly.
509
:And we have, our culture
valorizes perfectionism so much.
510
:Raven: And fighting and conquering, right?
511
:Especially America.
512
:Simon: Especially America.
513
:I tell you, I swear to you, the first
We have that Mars in our Yeah, yeah.
514
:The first time I was in I was in
a therapy session and my therapist
515
:said, I think you're a little hard.
516
:You're really too hard on yourself.
517
:I, I swear I was flattered.
518
:I was like, Oh,
519
:Raven: thank you.
520
:I've accomplished so much.
521
:I'm all grown up.
522
:No one would ever
523
:Simon: notice.
524
:That's funny.
525
:So, so it's a, it's a, it's a point
of pride that we have in our culture,
526
:really pushing ourself to that extreme.
527
:So it's great that, that there's
so much that's out there now.
528
:I think what's important about The
idea of self love or self acceptance
529
:as, as I teach it, and which I see as
not always represented out there, is,
530
:first of all, that it's a practice.
531
:It's not like a one time event.
532
:It's not like a thing that you
do in an exercise and then you've
533
:done it and now you're there.
534
:It's not, it's definitely
not an intellectual.
535
:Experience like an intellectual exercise.
536
:You can say, okay, I love myself.
537
:I, you know, it's not
theoretical like that.
538
:Love is a felt experience.
539
:It's a felt experience.
540
:It's so I would say it's learning how to
go into your heart of hearts and share
541
:that same generate that same feeling that
you have when you're holding a beloved.
542
:And, and communicating love and
that warm embrace, just sharing
543
:that same feeling with yourself,
showering that onto yourself.
544
:And I think that that feeling is,
takes a while to, to figure out how
545
:to reach in there and how to do that
in your own heart with yourself.
546
:But.
547
:A great starting point
for that is acceptance.
548
:It's a little more easy to grasp and
get a hold of learning to go into
549
:your heart and just accept yourself.
550
:With all of your things, ways that
you need to learn and grow, all of
551
:the foibles and flaws, all of the
challenges that you have, learning to
552
:just take a few moments in a day and,
and let yourself know that it's okay.
553
:You're okay.
554
:You are fine just the way you
are, where you are right now.
555
:Yes, you're not everywhere you want to be.
556
:Yes, you're not everything you
want to be or think you should be.
557
:But it's okay.
558
:You're okay.
559
:Just the way you are right here right
now, you made it this far and, and, and
560
:you're okay and you're going to be okay.
561
:Learning to really fill your heart with
those kinds of failings is a great entry
562
:point into that experience of self love.
563
:Raven: And that sounds a lot about the,
the other topic or concept a lot of
564
:people talk about is reparenting yourself.
565
:Like, Would you, as a soft empath,
I'm sure you wouldn't, yell at your
566
:child because they spilled milk, or
they just made a mistake, like, you're
567
:gonna be like, Oh, it's okay, and
then you help clean them up, like,
568
:but we don't do that for ourselves.
569
:We're like, oh my gosh, what an
idiot, can't believe I just did
570
:that, and you just talk so mean to
571
:Simon: yourself.
572
:So true.
573
:When are you gonna get it together?
574
:Why do you keep doing
575
:Raven: that?
576
:What's wrong with you?
577
:Versus like, it's okay.
578
:Yeah.
579
:And especially when you've realized
that you're in a relationship with
580
:the wrong person who is being horribly
mean to you and you now maybe you're
581
:stuck because you don't have enough
income, like then you really beat
582
:yourself up and that's the last, that's
the last thing that you need to do.
583
:You need to reassure yourself so
that you can rise up out of that.
584
:Simon: Exactly, exactly.
585
:100%.
586
:You need to, you need to shower yourself
with a huge amount of acceptance and
587
:love and understanding and recognition
that you're, there are reasons that
588
:you can change for where you are, but
the first thing that you need to do
589
:is just accept yourself and accept
that this is where, where you are
590
:and that, You're going to get there.
591
:It's okay.
592
:It's okay.
593
:That's huge.
594
:So I, I, so that's the one part.
595
:Yeah, it is reparenting.
596
:It's, it's being your own
therapist in a way, learning to
597
:give itself therapy, self healing.
598
:And the other side to it,
599
:which may seem paradoxical,
is essentially learning how to
600
:confront yourself in a new way.
601
:Learning how to be honest with yourself
in a new way, and, and, and I stress a new
602
:way because because our genuine, or our
general way of, Confronting ourselves is,
603
:is with the beatings, like the beatings
will continue until the, you know, morale
604
:improves, like you were just sharing.
605
:So, it's not like that at all,
but it's finding the courage to,
606
:to feel the feelings that are in
your heart and to see whatever
607
:needs to be seen within your heart.
608
:And this is, I think the essence
of integration, psychological
609
:integration, learning how to no longer
suppress and repress your emotions.
610
:And there are sort of two layers to this.
611
:One is what I think is like emotions
that are in the subconscious, just
612
:like lightly shoved down, which is the
kinds of emotions that we might have.
613
:like anger in a relationship
and we're in denial about it.
614
:You see that every time someone's
in an argument, you're like,
615
:why are you angry at me?
616
:I'm not angry.
617
:Super common thing.
618
:We, we, we don't like to admit anger or,
or frustration or a lot of emotions that
619
:Raven: we have.
620
:It reminds me a lot of that circle.
621
:I remember my therapist
telling me like, hate.
622
:Is like in the same location as love.
623
:Like it's just a circle.
624
:They're not opposites.
625
:They're actually right there.
626
:Like that intense emotion.
627
:If you hate someone, you also love
them because if you hate them enough,
628
:that means that you care enough
and then you love them that much.
629
:Wow.
630
:Yeah.
631
:Yeah.
632
:Simon: Wow.
633
:She was.
634
:Yes.
635
:And, and, but it's, it's buried and
sometimes it needs excavating in
636
:order to, in order to get there.
637
:It needs excavating.
638
:And so there's, it's a hard
work that excavation and coming
639
:to It's a huge challenge.
640
:It's way more deep of a challenge than
it might sound or than we could, I would
641
:ever have thought when I initially entered
on this path, just to feel what you, what
642
:the feelings are that are in your heart.
643
:And, and allow them to have a moment
of expression and, and recognition.
644
:And so this is really the second thing is,
is the courage, cultivating that courage.
645
:And I, I focus on courage
because ultimately the reason we.
646
:repress the fear and the anger and the
hurt and those things is out of fear.
647
:We have a fear of them and we have
a fear of them because we've never
648
:learned how to manage them, how to
process them, how to deal with them.
649
:And they're, they are frightening.
650
:They can be very overwhelming
and they can have implications
651
:on our life that we don't.
652
:Know what they are what they'll
be and so we have a lot of good
653
:reason to to have fear around the
feelings that are there in our heart.
654
:But the problem is that if they're
in your heart, they're there.
655
:They're already there.
656
:They're in your heart.
657
:And the only way to move beyond them
is, is to allow them to surface to give
658
:them their moment and the courage is
a powerful focus, because I think what
659
:happens when you summons your courage
is that we're not just dealing with.
660
:A conscious level of process here, we're
dealing with a, a very subconscious
661
:immediate, it's like a knee jerk reaction.
662
:It's like something that happens in a
blink of an eye, you know, and You can't
663
:control it consciously because it's a,
it's this mechanism that's in place.
664
:It's like a hard wiring
to repress our feelings.
665
:And so, but if you focus you focus
on cultivating the courage to, to
666
:approach your heart and to approach
your feelings, it's like you get
667
:in a heightened state of strength.
668
:And when you get in that heightened
state of strength, it cues your
669
:subconscious that okay, like, Simon's
ready to, to, to experience this and
670
:the guard, the guard goes down a little
bit, and then you can hear a soft voice
671
:in your heart that's like, I'm angry.
672
:And and, and, and, and, and the more
you focus on this, focus on it, then
673
:the more it grows and the more you can
start to, to see what's really going on.
674
:Raven: Mm.
675
:That is powerful.
676
:I kept thinking the only way through it,
how do I forget how the saying says the
677
:only way to essentially heal it is to feel
it or like there's some, there's another
678
:phrase that rhymes about going through it.
679
:Like you have to go through it.
680
:Simon: The only way out is
681
:Raven: through or yeah,
maybe that's the phrase.
682
:Yeah.
683
:I thought that one
rhymed, but I guess not.
684
:Yeah.
685
:The only way out is through.
686
:And that's
687
:Simon: true.
688
:I think
689
:Raven: that's exactly true.
690
:I think that's exactly true.
691
:Because if everything's hidden and
everything's unspoken or you're
692
:just always covering it up with
anger, I mean, I feel like that's.
693
:That's a bit of the problem with the
narcissist too, you know, because
694
:like you said, you're just like, we've
all experienced with the narcissist.
695
:We've seen when they are losing it.
696
:Like we've seen their weakest
moment and we're like, Oh my
697
:gosh, this is the real problem.
698
:But then all of a sudden they'll
put the mask back on and be
699
:like, Oh no, everything's fine.
700
:And like, they'll just go on
with their song and dance again.
701
:Right.
702
:They didn't actually feel through it.
703
:They had the moment to show us,
but then maybe, you know, also they
704
:didn't know what to do with that.
705
:So they just did what they always
do and they put the mask on.
706
:Which we can do too.
707
:We put on our victim hat on, we put on
our like, oh, I don't, it's hopeless, I
708
:don't know what else to do, whatever our
role is in our emotional tool bag, that's
709
:been shown us, and that's what we do.
710
:So it is very courageous to feel through
that and be able to transmute it.
711
:Into something.
712
:Exactly
713
:Simon: right.
714
:That's exactly right.
715
:Yeah.
716
:It takes, it takes the most tremendous
courage and I think you're 100 percent
717
:onto it that at the core of it,
that's, that's the problem with the
718
:narcissist and I know there's, I've
seen so many movies also, this is in,
719
:in, at the core of addiction in a way.
720
:Right.
721
:Raven: His addiction is covering, right?
722
:Yeah.
723
:Yeah.
724
:Simon: Yeah.
725
:And you see that like I remember
the, this movie, Papa, which is
726
:about Ernest Hemingway, who was, you
know, this Courageous war veteran who
727
:wrote these novels that just thought
of being this heroic, courageous
728
:figure, but he was also an alcoholic.
729
:He did this great job of showing how, you
know, despite having all this external
730
:courage, what was really going on was
he was just cowering, , fear of these
731
:feelings that he had in his heart and that
that's what drove him to, , to drinking.
732
:Yeah.
733
:, so yeah, I think, I think there's
a way in which the, the fear of the
734
:things that are in our heart is, is
the ultimate driver of dysfunction.
735
:In so many ways, and, and just to
circle around to one other thing,
736
:since I mentioned it briefly, I
talked about the subconscious realm.
737
:And then, but I also wanted to
mention there's an unconscious
738
:realm of, of feelings.
739
:And so the unconscious realm is like
the realm that I mentioned before,
740
:like the deeply repressed realm.
741
:When I talked about feelings that I
had, I suppressed as a child about.
742
:How I could be evil, not just my
mom was, but maybe I'm, that's,
743
:that's this like profound fear of,
of who I am in my ultimate state.
744
:Yeah.
745
:And so we, we have to learn to, you
know, delve through both of those, the
746
:subconscious realm and the unconscious
realm and, and, and heal all of those
747
:those feelings that, that were, We're
carrying around in our heart and and
748
:that is the, the path of the self
salutation that, that I that I teach.
749
:So it's those two meditations.
750
:The, the self acceptance and the, the
courage of, of self confrontation.
751
:Yeah, having, having the courage of.
752
:Self honesty.
753
:Raven: Self honesty I think is really
what's helped me change or heal I would
754
:have to say even the way that I parent
my husband's really good at like just
755
:asking super honest , you're not going
to like this, but what if it's this?
756
:And I'm like, Ooh, I don't like
that, but I guess I'll evaluate that.
757
:And without him, I probably
would never consider it because.
758
:I don't want to believe that, right?
759
:That's really hard on your own.
760
:So it does take somebody or something,
some container, I would think, to help
761
:facilitate that because we're not going
to just voluntarily or even know that
762
:it's under there to do that on our own.
763
:Simon: Yeah, yeah, it's a tough,
it's a we, we all just have a huge
764
:amount of resistance towards it.
765
:We have a huge amount of
resistance towards it.
766
:But that's why I think that, so I
developed, honestly, I developed the self
767
:salutation as a practice for myself, first
and foremost, and I For many years, I, I
768
:still do it most days, but for many years,
I just was really, really rigorous and,
769
:and disciplined about it just because
I realized, like, I got to get ahead
770
:of this problem and, and the unwinding
of this entire system is something that
771
:we have to be really proactive about.
772
:Because I,
773
:I watched my life just totally
fall apart when I was 40.
774
:When I left the monastic life, I
didn't, it wasn't pretty, like it was,
775
:it was, it was not the way I wanted.
776
:And when my life fell apart in such a
profound way at that time, I, I had to
777
:determine like, okay, like whatever I
need to do, I need to really do it because
778
:I don't want to go through that again.
779
:Yeah, you know, and and it was like,
the problem was that it was years and
780
:years of just putting things under
there, putting things under the rug,
781
:putting things under the rug, throwing
things down into the basement and And
782
:Raven: then kind of meditating above it.
783
:Exactly.
784
:Yeah.
785
:Yeah.
786
:Exactly.
787
:And I'll put that mess down here
and let me just levitate up here.
788
:No problem.
789
:Okay.
790
:Simon: Yeah.
791
:Doesn't matter.
792
:Not going to deal with
793
:Raven: it.
794
:Yeah.
795
:And then, then one day they, they
crept up and they, you couldn't hide.
796
:It was a cascading.
797
:Yeah,
798
:Simon: exactly.
799
:Exactly.
800
:It was a cascading event and you know,
I had the ultimate kind of escape.
801
:Like, those are my parents
from this lifetime.
802
:Raven: Oh, yes.
803
:Right.
804
:I have experienced that too.
805
:It's like I've heard and who knows?
806
:Like, I, I believe it, but
I don't, but it's like.
807
:But this is my reality now on
earth, like I've had Nekashik
808
:reading and I love her dearly.
809
:I love it.
810
:It was really profound
for me at the moment.
811
:But it is like, that contract is over.
812
:You're strangers in the,
you know, soul world.
813
:And so that kind of makes your
mind go, like, and it kind of
814
:gives you an excuse, like, Oh, I
don't have to talk to them now.
815
:Totally separate
816
:Simon: from this entirely.
817
:I don't have to
818
:Raven: worry about it at all.
819
:Yeah, which takes away, takes
away responsibility of maybe
820
:your life lesson here on Earth.
821
:Simon: You're just.
822
:Exactly, exactly.
823
:Yeah, yeah.
824
:We're just, we're just like, here's
a great example that was, you know,
825
:that, that I used to teach and we
were just like, you know, driftwood
826
:floating in a, down a river, sometimes
it combines with other driftwood
827
:and then, you know, it separates.
828
:That's, you know, that's our
relationships here on this, on this world.
829
:Raven: And so many explanations
to skirt our responsibilities,
830
:Simon: I guess.
831
:Yeah, I mean, you know, I don't know,
from an ultimate, like, cosmological
832
:perspective, like from the perspective of
eternity, there may be some truth to that,
833
:I guess, but really, like the reality
is still, you need to deal with the
834
:relationship that you have with the earth.
835
:Raven: Right.
836
:I know.
837
:That's, I'm so earth grounded.
838
:Like, I'm so spiritualistic, like,
yes, totally believe in reincarnation,
839
:all the lives, all the stuff.
840
:Yeah.
841
:But what about right now right like
that will be will be like we'll figure
842
:it out once we leave this body But
what are we gonna do right now here?
843
:Exactly.
844
:Yeah, and that's what keeps pulling
me to be more responsible with how I'm
845
:you know Repairing those relationships
or even trying and on all the things I
846
:Simon: agree.
847
:I agree a hundred percent.
848
:Yeah, exactly.
849
:And what's the meaning of these
relationships if it's not to bring us to
850
:the point of that reconciliation healing.
851
:So, yeah, yeah, I think that's So you, you
852
:Raven: develop these for yourself out
of the pain of that kind of existential
853
:crisis out of the, The monastic service.
854
:Yeah,
855
:Simon: I did.
856
:Yeah.
857
:Exactly.
858
:Exactly.
859
:Yeah.
860
:The existential crisis that happened
when I, when, I mean, the, the my, when
861
:my monastic life imploded and I realized
like, okay, I need to I need to face a
862
:different reality here and, and try and
then realized all the ways that I had.
863
:essentially entered a
religious institution.
864
:I, I entered Hinduism because I, I
thought like, ah, I need a spiritual
865
:path where I can not end up in a,
as a religious institutional figure,
866
:but be on a spiritual journey.
867
:But I ended up In many ways, realizing
that I had become kind of crusty as a,
868
:as a monk and as a religious figure, I
mean, it's easy to do people project all
869
:kinds of things on monks, because it seems
impossible to people to imagine, like
870
:being a monk and therefore they I think
started to treat me very differently,
871
:especially after I've been a monk for
like eight or ten years, people kind of
872
:have a, you know, a sense of respect
towards me that is easy to hide
873
:behind then and not to worry about.
874
:And so, so when I left the trappings
of that life and entered the wilds.
875
:I the wild,
876
:Raven: the great unknown.
877
:Simon: Yeah.
878
:Yeah.
879
:No, it was like, it was kind of
like going from being in a nursery
880
:setting for like a plant and then just
being planted in the, in the wild.
881
:And so when that happened,
then there was so much.
882
:I had to do that, that this speak,
this practice became a refuge for me.
883
:And the more that I studied
in different ways of personal
884
:transformation and healing, the, the,
the more the practice developed and.
885
:solidified into, into what it is.
886
:And I also so, so I mentioned the core
process of you know, the meditation
887
:doing the, the two meditations
that I, that I mentioned I named
888
:my meditations after animals also.
889
:So, so I do.
890
:Yeah.
891
:So, so the self acceptance
is named after the moose.
892
:Which Native Americans say
embodies self acceptance.
893
:Raven: Where can we access all of these?
894
:Simon: Well my website, selfsalutation.
895
:com, is great.
896
:I have a free newsletter in,
that I share once a week.
897
:I, I send out an email which
discusses one component or
898
:another of the self salutation.
899
:And there's, there's also a
component to it which, I talk
900
:about, which is really nice.
901
:I love the point you said earlier about
hiding behind anger, how we often use
902
:anger to hide other deeper feelings like
the feeling of being hurt by someone.
903
:I think a lot of anger is really just
an expression of feeling of being hurt.
904
:There's something very
vulnerable underneath it.
905
:Raven: You know, when someone's
angry at you, they deeply care.
906
:Versus they hate you and they want
you to go away, but that takes.
907
:That mindset of emotional maturity,
like, oh, okay, I'm going to
908
:put my ego in the back burner.
909
:I'm still going to go and find
out why they're angry because
910
:there's something deeper there.
911
:Simon: That's so wise.
912
:Yeah.
913
:That's so true.
914
:That's
915
:Raven: so true.
916
:I hope that helps me with my daughters.
917
:That's what I'm saying.
918
:They're teenage years.
919
:Let's just hope that gets
me through teenage years.
920
:Simon: The last point that I wanted to
share about this process, which I think
921
:is really important, is that I think
our whole way of talking about emotions
922
:is very limited because we just have
one term that encompasses them all.
923
:Emotions.
924
:, or we might divide them into two, which
is to say good emotions and bad emotions.
925
:Right.
926
:And good feelings and bad feelings.
927
:And whereas I think the reality is there
are, there's a lot of more nuance to
928
:it and especially what I want to point
out is that some emotions are really
929
:just masks for other deeper emotions.
930
:like the anger that you pointed to.
931
:And so I think Real emotional intelligence
is starting to learn when an emotion that
932
:you're experiencing is actually not as
important as it might feel on its own.
933
:Right?
934
:So, when you feel anger, it may
feel very important and very true
935
:and very, like, like, riveting,
like, this is the problem, when in
936
:reality, that's not the issue at all.
937
:There's something deeper that you can,
that you can glean from it, and, and if
938
:you can take a little time to process
through that, Preliminary emotion that
939
:you're feeling to get to the the deeper
reality of what's going on in your heart.
940
:And so I call the surface
emotions syndromes.
941
:I have a number of
syndromes that I talk about.
942
:Because a lot of times we don't
even feel them as emotions,
943
:they're more like ways of thinking.
944
:And, you know, we might feel, because we
kind of tend to deny emotions also, so.
945
:So the process that I teach is about
learning how to recognize, Oh, , I'm
946
:in a, I'm stuck in a syndrome.
947
:And, and if I want to resolve it,
it's not going to resolve on, I'm
948
:not going to get through it by
trying to take it at its face value.
949
:Like that this is the problem,
I'm gonna have to pry beneath the
950
:surface of this syndrome and uncover
what the core emotion is that's
951
:underneath it that I need to handle.
952
:And, , in this way, , you can
really disengage a lot of emotions
953
:that bother us throughout the day.
954
:You can unplug them very quickly.
955
:, and get at the heart of what's really
going on in your heart and enjoy a lot
956
:more happiness in your day to day.
957
:Raven: Yeah, it really sounds
like something that can benefit.
958
:All the empaths who are just struggling
with like so much brain fog and heartache
959
:and confusion And trying to heal it
sounds like a very grounding practice
960
:that I look forward to doing as well
961
:yeah, yeah.
962
:Thank
963
:Simon: you for your work.
964
:Well, thank you.
965
:Thank you very much.
966
:.
Raven: Thank you so much.
967
:Yeah.
968
:And you can find the
link to selfsalutation.
969
:com in the show notes.
970
:Wonderful.
971
:Yeah.
972
:Thank you so much for being here.
973
:Thanks, Raven.
974
:I appreciate it.
975
:Yeah.
976
:Absolutely.
977
:Thank you so much for tuning into the
end of this podcast episode and being
978
:an empath member here in the community.
979
:Don't forget to grab your
free somatic healing workshop.
980
:And or human design chart
report in the show notes.
981
:I need your help please rate and review
my newest book Empath's guide to rising
982
:strong a human design guide book.
983
:You can grab a free Kindle,
unlimited copy to read and review.
984
:Or grab a beautiful
paperback copy on Amazon.
985
:Be sure to listen to the empath
and narcissist audible book.
986
:If you haven't already.
987
:Or you can grab your paperback on Amazon.
988
:It
989
:is a profound exploration of my
journey and healing providing you
990
:with tools for healing as well.
991
:All the links are in the show notes.