Episode 58

Surviving Childhood Trauma: STOP Spiritual Bypassing Healing from Narcissistic Parental Alienation with Simon Timm

Published on: 8th February, 2024
Are you escaping your emotions that need to be self-parented by escaping into spiritual practices?

In this episode, Raven Scott hosts an enlightening conversation with Simon Timm, an experienced meditation and mindfulness teacher and Hindu Monk.

Simon discusses his traumatic childhood experience of parental alienation and psychological abuse from his Narcissistic stepmother and how this led to years of depression.

He details the personal development journey that began with him reconnecting with his estranged mother at 20 years old. This led to Simon's 16 years as a Hindu monk and eventually his existential crisis, triggering another transformative stage in his life.

Simon elaborates on the 'Self-salutation' approach he developed for meditation, focusing on acceptance and self-love, and the courage to face deeply buried emotions. He stresses the importance of addressing and resolving our inner complexities rather than running away from them.

Find his method and lovely emails at selfsalutation.com

All Links are on the Podcast Page

Healing Depression Naturally from Parental Alienation Syndrome due to a Narcissistic Step Mother

0:00 Surviving Childhood Trauma: A Monk's Journey to Healing from Narcissistic Parental Alienation

00:00 Introduction to the Podcast

01:28 Guest Introduction: Simon Tim's Journey

04:07 Simon's Childhood Trauma

11:32 Reconnecting with His Mother

15:47 Transition into Spirituality

18:22 The Role of Meditation in Healing

23:50 The Power of Self-Love and Acceptance

24:35 Understanding the Inner Critic

30:28 The Culture of Perfectionism

31:24 The Journey to Self-Acceptance

32:13 The Power of Self-Love

34:09 The Concept of Reparenting Yourself

36:05 The Courage to Confront Yourself

36:56 The Process of Emotional Integration

37:58 The Complexity of Emotions

38:22 The Challenge of Emotional Excavation

45:54 The Power of Self-Honesty

54:19 The Practice of Self-Salutation

54:57 The Role of Emotions in Relationships

55:37 The Importance of Emotional Intelligence

58:36 Conclusion: The Path to Healing

Transcript
Simon:

My father and my stepmother succeeded.

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in getting my sister and

I to turn on our mother.

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And so they actually, they got

custody of us when when we were four.

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They kidnapped us for a weekend,

but ended up getting custody of us.

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Wow.

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And, and then there was a brutal

battle that ensued for years.

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And when when I was 10, my father and

stepmother sat me down and my stepmother

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said, you know, you were too young to

understand this before, but actually all

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the trouble you've been having in school.

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, she said all of that was actually

not your fault, because it's your

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mother, and your mother is evil.

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I think what happens when you

summons your courage is that

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we're not just dealing with.

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A conscious level of process here, we're

dealing with a, a very subconscious

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immediate, it's like a knee jerk reaction.

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But if you focus on cultivating the

courage to, to approach your heart and

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to approach your feelings, it's like you

get in a heightened state of strength.

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Welcome back to Narcissist podcast,

where we explore all of the spiritual

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ways to heal from narcissistic abuse.

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I am your host, Raven Scott.

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And today we are blessed with our

extraordinary guest, Simon Tim.

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He is a seasoned meditation and

mindfulness teacher, whose journey

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into the realms of self discovery

has been nothing short of remarkable.

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Simon dedicated an incredible 16 years

of his life as a Hindu monk, immersing

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himself in the ancient practices of

meditation and spiritual discipline.

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However, when he had his existential

crisis and he decided to transition

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away from monastic life in 2011, Simon

found himself facing a new set of

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challenges, his biggest challenges of yet.

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And yes, he did have a narcissistic

stepmother through his childhood.

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but this one, recognizing the need for

meditation practice that goes beyond.

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Simply transcending or rising above

the negative feelings and shoving them

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down under the rug, Simon embarked

on a profound exploration of various

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modalities of personal transformation.

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His journey led him to

create the self salutation.

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It's a unique approach to meditation

that aims to address and resolve

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the complexities of our inner world.

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And also he has a master's in.

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Ethics from Yale.

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Simon brings both scholarly wisdom

and practical wisdom to the table.

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So I'm really excited for you to meet him.

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So get ready for this enlightening

conversation as we delve into Simon's

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unique perspective on being a narcissistic

abuse victim, meditation, mindfulness, and

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transformative power of self salutation.

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This is definitely a conversation

you won't want to miss.

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So make sure you have your headphones

in, you hit that subscribe button,

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And you share this with a friend.

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Let's get into it.

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Raven: Welcome, Simon.

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Thank you so much for being here.

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Simon: Thanks so much, Raven.

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I'm, I'm excited to be here with you.

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I love what you're doing.

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So, so it's great to be here.

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Raven: I appreciate that.

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I appreciate you listening and

really investing in that as well and

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understanding the audience because I

think you're going to bring so much

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love and you're going to bring so much

I think just good nuggets , for them.

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So I'm excited to dive into this

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Simon: with you.

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Yeah.

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Thank you.

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Thank you.

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I grew, I grew up, my stepmother

was a serious narcissist.

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And so I grew up really under the thumb

of a narcissist and it's something that

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I have a lot of experience with and

a lot of you know, empathy for others

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who are, who are going through it.

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So,

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Raven: yeah.

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Well, let's start with that.

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Tell me more about that.

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How old were you when she was

introduced into your life?

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Simon: I was two or three when,

when my father connect, my parents

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divorced when I was like six

months old and my father connected

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with my stepmother very early on.

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And so from really from the time I

can remember, she was in my life.

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I actually do remember the, the moment

I met her at first, and I remember

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resisting her profoundly from that,

from that very first encounter,

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which is maybe not uncommon for, you

know, kids of with a divorced parent,

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but, but I remember that, and, and

it was always, a struggle with her.

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She passed on a couple of years ago

now, but it was, it was profound

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psychological abuse that I endured there,

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Raven: for sure.

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So was she the kind of person that

had like certain expectations,

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you had to meet them and like you

were like an extension of her?

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What kind of stepmother and narc was she?

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Simon: Yeah, she was yeah, she

had impossible expectations.

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She was, she she had a the irony of

my childhood is that she had a Ph.

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D.

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in child psychology

from Harvard University.

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Wow.

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So, she was the authority, and

when she spoke, she always Let

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me know that it was her clinical.

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Raven: Yeah, like you better do it

this way or like she knew how to

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parent you because she was the expert.

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Yeah,

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Simon: and I literally, I mean,

it was an attempt at creating an

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endearing term, but I called her doc.

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That was our name for her.

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So the fact that she was a doctor, had a

doctorate, she wielded that profoundly.

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And she had a constant, she had incredibly

high expectations and they were constantly

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changed when she really went under.

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Like I think when I was around

10, she had a nervous breakdown.

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She didn't get tenure in her position

and she was flailing professionally.

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And my dad was an artist

and wasn't supporting us.

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So she really caved during that time.

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And those are the most, those are

the darkest years where, where I

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was just really under her thumb

and she had expectations and those

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expectations were Just unmeetable.

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It wasn't even possible because they

changed all the time and You know, I

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hate it like the place was supposed to

be clean I had to clean my sister and

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I were cleaning we could there was not

possible for us to clean the house in

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a way that satisfied her expectations

because No matter what we did.

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There was some rule that she

had established that was And she

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Raven: didn't communicate it, probably.

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Or she

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Simon: hadn't communicated it.

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Or it was, yeah.

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Raven: The target's always

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Simon: moving.

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The target was moving.

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The target was us.

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Ultimately.

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Yeah,

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Raven: you thought the

target was getting clean.

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Didn't realize you had

the target on your back.

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I was the target, yeah.

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Oh my gosh.

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And how did your

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Simon: mother She was profoundly

controlling and oversaw.

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Everything in powerful

ways, and, you know.

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Raven: And she was the breadwinner,

so then she kind of, like your, your

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dad kind of gave her that, right?

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Simon: Exactly.

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Exactly.

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Huh.

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And my dad needed her in those ways,

so he was, you know, caved to her,

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and he was gone a lot of the time.

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My dad was in the theater, and

so he was gone at nights, so

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we were home alone with her.

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It was yeah.

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Yeah, it was rough.

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I, I, I don't, I think she was maybe

borderline alcoholic, but she was the

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kind of alcoholic where like when she

finally made a martini or bought herself

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a scotch, then I relaxed because that's

when I knew, like, she was, she, the

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pressure would be off a little bit.

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So Yeah.

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I know some kids with their

parents, alcohol is very different

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and, and that's a bad time.

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But for me, that was when I

knew like, okay, she's going

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to tone it down a little bit.

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Things are going to get easier now.

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Raven: That relaxed her neuroses.

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Simon: Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So.

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Raven: And you were with her

most of the time or where was

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your mother in the picture?

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Does she?

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Simon: Well, so she and I, I

underwent a trauma called severe

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parental alienation as a child.

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So I think in a lot of divorcees,

a lot of divorced couples,

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they'll try and get their kid to

turn on the, the other parent.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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My father and my stepmother succeeded.

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in getting my sister and

I to turn on our mother.

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And so they actually, they got

custody of us when when we were four.

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They kidnapped us for a weekend,

but ended up getting custody of us.

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Wow.

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And, and then there was a brutal

battle that ensued for years.

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And when we were 10.

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When I was 10, my sister was a

little older than me, she was 13.

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When I was 10, my father and stepmother

sat me down and my stepmother said, you

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know, you were too young to understand

this before, but actually all the

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trouble you've been having in school.

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I was in trouble all the

time when I was a kid.

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I was like getting in fights and you

know, doing crazy things and yeah.

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So she said all of, I was at nightmares,

she said all of, actually, anyway,

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she said all of that was actually

not your fault, because it's your

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mother, and your mother is evil.

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And she's trying to manipulate and

control you and therefore we want

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to move you across the country.

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And so we moved from Boston,

Massachusetts, where I was born to

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Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and I don't, you

couldn't get away with it today, but

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they just Took us away and we said,

Oh, we're just, we just want to spend

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the summer with my dad and stepmom.

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We don't want to do split

custody for the summer.

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We'll start up again in the fall.

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But in the fall, she went

and knocked on the door.

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You know, we were

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Raven: gone.

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You guys were gone.

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Oh my gosh.

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Simon: So we severed Oh.

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Ties with her.

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Heartbreaking.

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It's heartbreaking.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Did you meet back up with her?

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Actually, she came out to Wisconsin.

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She tracked us down.

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She was able to track us down.

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She came out to Wisconsin and I,

we met her in a park and, and told

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her to never contact us ever again.

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Hmm.

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And, and so I have.

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You know, etched in my heart is this

memory of watching her walk away

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from us in the park, just shattered.

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broken person.

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And it took, you know, of course it took

a lot of therapy to get to the point when

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I was 20, I reconnected with, with my,

with my with my real mother and underwent

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a lot of therapy, a lot of counseling.

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And it took a long time to be able to,

you know, even recognize that to speak

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of heal, start to heal those wounds.

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And then it wasn't until I was in my

40s when I realized the inner damage

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that turning on my mother had for

me and realizing that as a 10 year

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old, I didn't just process it, that

my mother was evil because who am I?

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I'm my mother's son and therefore

I internalized this sense of my

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own self really also is being evil.

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And and, and sort of the, the, the

moment of, of real pain there is

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that moment of, you know, how I just

turned on my mother and seeing her.

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You know, as a really defeated

person walking away in the park.

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So, so I've had to do a lot of

healing around, around all of that.

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Was profoundly depressed

as a college student.

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By the time I got to college,

I was profoundly depressed and

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I, I went to a therapist and.

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It was a priest I went to him

for counseling and after a few

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sessions, he said, well, tell

me something about your mom.

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You never mentioned your mom.

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And I said, ah, I haven't, you

know, talked to my mom for 10 years,

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really, but, but it's not a big deal.

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I'm over it.

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And he's like,

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Raven: ah, that's it.

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Simon: Yeah.

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And he said, he said, Oh, really?

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And the way he said it, it just

kind of like, hooked in my mind and

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I was like, he didn't believe me.

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I was like, I was so frustrated.

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I was like, why didn't he believe me?

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He should believe me.

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They did this kind of weird logic

in my mind, like, he's a priest.

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He should believe me.

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Like somehow, you know.

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Right.

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Raven: You were telling the

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Simon: truth.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, so, so he helped me reconnect with

her and, and, and, and changed my life

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and it was the most courageous thing that

I've, yet today, I still just remember

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just that tremendous fear I had in,

in actually reconnecting with her and

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finding out she was, She was not evil.

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She is not evil.

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Yeah.

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In fact, she became a therapist.

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She had to undergo all kinds

of therapy herself, and that

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prompted her to become a therapist.

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Yeah.

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She's been very helpful

and wonderful in my life.

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So, so there was a happy ending to that.

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That's

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Raven: amazing.

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A happy ending.

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But all through this, I have two

things running through my mind.

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I'm like, okay, so you went to college

and you got your, was it master's in,

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Simon: Well, I did my undergraduate,

I did my master's in my four,

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you know, just ten years ago.

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So, yeah, I did a master's in ethics ten

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Raven: years ago.

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In ethics, right.

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And then You also, we have to

address the whole elephant, you

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know, white elephant in the room.

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You also are a Hindu monk, like

when did you transition into that?

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Simon: Well, after college.

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So, in college, as I mentioned,

I was profoundly depressed.

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And, I went through therapy.

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I came to a point of, of therapy where

I felt like I lifted my head out of the,

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the need to be like totally immersed in,

in, yeah, in the therapeutic process and

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the healing process and I could like see

the world around me and, and everything.

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But I wasn't able, I was on medication,

I was on Prozac at the time, I was on

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lithium and Prozac for a period of time.

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And, I wasn't able to get off medication

and I would try to get off it and, and

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lapse in a way and, and that prompted

a kind of an existential crisis of a

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different sort where it's like every

day I was taking, you know, when I would

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take my medication, just wondering, like,

like, so is this the rest of my life?

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And why is it that I

can't live with myself.

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How is it that I can't

just live with myself?

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And ultimately that was the seed of

what became a real spiritual journey.

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And I, I went on a quest

to find other ways of.

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Addressing the mental anguish that I,

that I was going through and, and that

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led me to an ashram in California.

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And, and as many spiritual

quests end up, I don't know,

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Raven: enough in ashrams.

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You know, in an ashram,

it just makes total sense.

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Simon: So yeah, so I encountered and

I really experienced meditation as

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helping me in a profound way, just

helping me to be with myself, to sit

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with myself, to experience life and

shift my, my mentality in profound ways.

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So, so I got very immersed in

and lived as a monk for 16 years.

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Yeah, I didn't expect that when I moved

in, I just thought, oh, I'll try it out,

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but I loved it and loved the life and

it was quite good to me in many, many

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ways, until I came to a point where I

uncovered what I sometimes call is like

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the trade secret of meditators, like

trade secret in, in the sense of like

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this, the secret that people who meditate

know but don't want other people to know

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about, which is, which is that Meditation

can can be wonderful and helpful and

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I love meditation and teach meditation

and I spend a lot of time meditating.

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Mm hmm.

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But meditation can also

be a way of escaping.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And so I, what I uncovered was that,

like the point that I had shared

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just earlier about how, Oh, wow.

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When I embrace this idea that my mother

was evil, how that also impacted my

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own view and feelings about myself.

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That was just totally repressed.

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That was, that was way below the surface.

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Yeah.

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And so we can use.

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meditation as a way, even, or even

just in daily, that's a very deep

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example, but just in daily exchanges

with people, meditation can be a way

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where, oh, I can lift myself up now

to this place and find a little peace.

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And then, and, Come back to the world.

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And even though things are a bit of a

mess in my life, just kind of not really

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deal with it and go on with it because

I'm okay, because I'm able to lift

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up to this little place now and then.

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So it's like a bit like a drug.

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I mean, it's way better for you, but, but

it's a bit, it can be escapism like that.

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And so I, you know, it's, In the

end, had to confront the reality that

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there's a lot of stuff still in my

heart and the, you know, a few years

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of therapy, unfortunately, in your

20s is, is not enough to resolve

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systemic profound childhood trauma.

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Yeah.

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And, and so I had to come back and revisit

those things and reprocess those things

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and, and reapproach my, my own way of

being in the world and in a new way.

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And did

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Raven: you find yourself diving

into like somatic is a real hot

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topic now, but essentially it's like

processing trauma through your body.

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Versus trying to escape

it through your head.

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Simon: Yeah.

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Yeah, I did.

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I did.

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I very much did that.

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And so I participated in and still,

still do practice called core energetics.

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I'm not sure if that's

a modality that you're.

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familiar with.

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No.

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But it's a somatic therapy and it's a way

of, you know, moving your body so that

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you can release the, the feelings that

are, that are, that are buried there.

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It's incredibly helpful.

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And I also developed a form of

meditation, which is what I now

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teach called the self salutation.

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And it's a essentially.

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What I learned as I was going through the

different modalities of transformation

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and taking seminars and going to retreats

and doing all kinds of, of, of different

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trainings and trying to understand myself.

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I studied psychology for a year

at Pacifica Graduate Institute,

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which is a depth psychology.

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Counseling program, like a

Jungian psychology program.

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So what I fundamentally came to after

a lot of probing in this, in this realm

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of personal transformation was that

actually the secret to transformation

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was not necessarily changing myself

as much as changing my relationship.

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With myself in two ways, that's profound.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And that little shift kind of

stepping back in a, in a, in a sense

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and, and really looking at that is

the essence of the self salutation

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and the practice that I teach now.

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And there's two components to it.

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There's two core components to it.

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That are sort of, like, seem

at least initially to be

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in tension with each other.

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They feel like fundamental opposites,

but they're not, ultimately.

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I think they're, it's a

paradoxical relationship.

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They're really in harmony with each other.

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But the, the first thing is we need to

learn how to love and accept ourselves.

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In profound ways, in ways that pretty

much all the ways that we're hard on

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:

ourself, like all those places we think

that we need to be hard on ourself,

378

:

or the problem is I'm not hard enough

on myself, like all of those ways,

379

:

we actually this, the solution is to

unplug that inner critic or really inner

380

:

judge and, and learn to shower ourself

with profound love and acceptance.

381

:

Where do you

382

:

Raven: think that comes from?

383

:

Like that self critic, the inner

critic, because we seem to all have

384

:

it and it seems to be like huge

and all of us when we like really.

385

:

Yeah.

386

:

Have raw moments with

each other in a minute.

387

:

Yeah.

388

:

Yeah.

389

:

Always feeling like an imposter.

390

:

Simon: Yeah.

391

:

Yeah.

392

:

I, I guess my understanding of

the inner critic is that it's, we

393

:

internalize the worst of our parents.

394

:

Mm hmm.

395

:

We internalize their judgments of us.

396

:

In, in their worst format, and it's

so threatening for children, you

397

:

know, when, when, when we experience

that from, from parents, but

398

:

Raven: What if you had like a super

loving parent who only showered on

399

:

praise, because I have experiences

where I would, I wouldn't believe him.

400

:

I'd be like.

401

:

He's just saying that because you're

my dad and now it's crazy like I feel

402

:

like Pete and repeat I'm like feeling

the same thing with my my youngest.

403

:

I'm like, I didn't I'm I'm a

I'm praising you She's like, ah,

404

:

you know, she gets all negative.

405

:

I'm like, okay, what's happening here?

406

:

There's another pattern.

407

:

We got a break But it seems like

it just kind of sometimes For

408

:

some people, it appears out of

nowhere, like it's internal.

409

:

Simon: Yeah, yeah, yeah, well, you know,

I think maybe you're right, ultimately,

410

:

probably there is some part of it where,

411

:

I guess that gets into a deeper kind

of existential question about, about

412

:

these things, but I, I would say

ultimately, yeah, we all come into

413

:

this world with certain lessons that

we have to learn and certain thing,

414

:

ways that we have to Grow and so are

in one sense, it's kind of written in

415

:

Raven: the stars.

416

:

Simon: Yeah, it's kind of written

in the stars and our, our parents

417

:

externalize it in a way, but it, it,

the interesting thing about it, just

418

:

in a, so you know, that I'm, I'm sure

that in relationships, we'll kind

419

:

of see the shadow of our parents.

420

:

And, and the, we respond to the shadow

of our parents, it's, like, maybe,

421

:

especially with your intimate partner,

my intimate part, my spouse is really

422

:

nothing like my stepmother in any way.

423

:

She's the most loving, kind,

you know, she has none of that.

424

:

Yeah.

425

:

But, there's Like sometimes like a

little shadow of perfectionism or

426

:

something like that that mimics what

my stepmother had and that terrifies

427

:

me in a profound way when it shouldn't.

428

:

I have nothing to fear with.

429

:

My spouse.

430

:

Mm hmm.

431

:

Yeah.

432

:

So, but I'm not responding so much to my

spouse as I'm responding to my stepmother.

433

:

Right.

434

:

Right?

435

:

Yeah.

436

:

And, and so so I think that ultimately

there's a way in which our parents

437

:

Are just doing that on a higher, same

thing on a higher level and we're in

438

:

internal, they kind of externalize

something and it's not even really them.

439

:

It's actually just kind of coming through

them in the same, in the same way.

440

:

Mm hmm.

441

:

Raven: Makes sense.

442

:

Yeah.

443

:

And sometimes I'm thinking through, it's

also not what they say it's what they

444

:

do and it's like how they act when they

don't realize they're doing something.

445

:

Yeah.

446

:

That's how we learn as children

is through example and then we

447

:

pick up on that and we do that.

448

:

You know.

449

:

That's true.

450

:

Simon: That's true.

451

:

Yeah.

452

:

And sometimes maybe they're withholding

a judgment that they have and, and we

453

:

know that they have it and they don't.

454

:

Yeah.

455

:

We can

456

:

Raven: energetically feel the judgment.

457

:

We can

458

:

Simon: feel like there's something there.

459

:

And kids of course are

phenomenally perceptive.

460

:

Raven: So.

461

:

Very perceptive and intuitive.

462

:

Yeah.

463

:

Yeah.

464

:

Yeah.

465

:

But I, yeah, you're right about that.

466

:

We do attract, there's so many

different guests that have

467

:

been on talking about that.

468

:

We attract that trauma wound

that we're trying to heal

469

:

subconsciously without knowing it.

470

:

Simon: Yeah.

471

:

Yeah.

472

:

And that is exactly what I think

is happening is that ultimately

473

:

we're trying to heal from it.

474

:

And we it's a compulsive

kind of compulsion to like

475

:

draw that scenario again.

476

:

And sometimes we kind of

like win out this time.

477

:

Raven: Over control it.

478

:

Right.

479

:

Yeah.

480

:

I love how you said that.

481

:

Win out.

482

:

And that's not the goal

is to fix them or win out.

483

:

Yeah.

484

:

Yeah.

485

:

It's like almost recognize it,

process it, and then let it go.

486

:

Simon: Yeah.

487

:

Yeah.

488

:

Raven: So there's so much

talk about the self love.

489

:

I think you were talking about the

self love, like self love, self care.

490

:

We see it all over on

social media, everywhere.

491

:

Yeah.

492

:

What is the real true nature,

like of certain practices?

493

:

Because I know there's a

variety of practices, but.

494

:

Simon: Yeah, that's such a great,

that's such a great question and

495

:

it's so true that, and I'm happy

that it's out there and that it's

496

:

permeating culture in a way, this idea.

497

:

Because it's because it's so valuable.

498

:

I was totally opposed to it forever.

499

:

I was like, oh no, get me away from this.

500

:

I just thought it was, I don't know

I don't know what I was, I was afraid

501

:

that a little self love was going

to ruin me somehow, I don't know.

502

:

Raven: You'd become entitled or something?

503

:

Yeah, yeah,

504

:

Simon: I don't know, like

somehow it's gonna, I don't know.

505

:

Too soft?

506

:

Raven: Because especially with men,

right, self love, self care is like,

507

:

oh, I'm not going to be a pussy.

508

:

Simon: Exactly, exactly.

509

:

And we have, our culture

valorizes perfectionism so much.

510

:

Raven: And fighting and conquering, right?

511

:

Especially America.

512

:

Simon: Especially America.

513

:

I tell you, I swear to you, the first

We have that Mars in our Yeah, yeah.

514

:

The first time I was in I was in

a therapy session and my therapist

515

:

said, I think you're a little hard.

516

:

You're really too hard on yourself.

517

:

I, I swear I was flattered.

518

:

I was like, Oh,

519

:

Raven: thank you.

520

:

I've accomplished so much.

521

:

I'm all grown up.

522

:

No one would ever

523

:

Simon: notice.

524

:

That's funny.

525

:

So, so it's a, it's a, it's a point

of pride that we have in our culture,

526

:

really pushing ourself to that extreme.

527

:

So it's great that, that there's

so much that's out there now.

528

:

I think what's important about The

idea of self love or self acceptance

529

:

as, as I teach it, and which I see as

not always represented out there, is,

530

:

first of all, that it's a practice.

531

:

It's not like a one time event.

532

:

It's not like a thing that you

do in an exercise and then you've

533

:

done it and now you're there.

534

:

It's not, it's definitely

not an intellectual.

535

:

Experience like an intellectual exercise.

536

:

You can say, okay, I love myself.

537

:

I, you know, it's not

theoretical like that.

538

:

Love is a felt experience.

539

:

It's a felt experience.

540

:

It's so I would say it's learning how to

go into your heart of hearts and share

541

:

that same generate that same feeling that

you have when you're holding a beloved.

542

:

And, and communicating love and

that warm embrace, just sharing

543

:

that same feeling with yourself,

showering that onto yourself.

544

:

And I think that that feeling is,

takes a while to, to figure out how

545

:

to reach in there and how to do that

in your own heart with yourself.

546

:

But.

547

:

A great starting point

for that is acceptance.

548

:

It's a little more easy to grasp and

get a hold of learning to go into

549

:

your heart and just accept yourself.

550

:

With all of your things, ways that

you need to learn and grow, all of

551

:

the foibles and flaws, all of the

challenges that you have, learning to

552

:

just take a few moments in a day and,

and let yourself know that it's okay.

553

:

You're okay.

554

:

You are fine just the way you

are, where you are right now.

555

:

Yes, you're not everywhere you want to be.

556

:

Yes, you're not everything you

want to be or think you should be.

557

:

But it's okay.

558

:

You're okay.

559

:

Just the way you are right here right

now, you made it this far and, and, and

560

:

you're okay and you're going to be okay.

561

:

Learning to really fill your heart with

those kinds of failings is a great entry

562

:

point into that experience of self love.

563

:

Raven: And that sounds a lot about the,

the other topic or concept a lot of

564

:

people talk about is reparenting yourself.

565

:

Like, Would you, as a soft empath,

I'm sure you wouldn't, yell at your

566

:

child because they spilled milk, or

they just made a mistake, like, you're

567

:

gonna be like, Oh, it's okay, and

then you help clean them up, like,

568

:

but we don't do that for ourselves.

569

:

We're like, oh my gosh, what an

idiot, can't believe I just did

570

:

that, and you just talk so mean to

571

:

Simon: yourself.

572

:

So true.

573

:

When are you gonna get it together?

574

:

Why do you keep doing

575

:

Raven: that?

576

:

What's wrong with you?

577

:

Versus like, it's okay.

578

:

Yeah.

579

:

And especially when you've realized

that you're in a relationship with

580

:

the wrong person who is being horribly

mean to you and you now maybe you're

581

:

stuck because you don't have enough

income, like then you really beat

582

:

yourself up and that's the last, that's

the last thing that you need to do.

583

:

You need to reassure yourself so

that you can rise up out of that.

584

:

Simon: Exactly, exactly.

585

:

100%.

586

:

You need to, you need to shower yourself

with a huge amount of acceptance and

587

:

love and understanding and recognition

that you're, there are reasons that

588

:

you can change for where you are, but

the first thing that you need to do

589

:

is just accept yourself and accept

that this is where, where you are

590

:

and that, You're going to get there.

591

:

It's okay.

592

:

It's okay.

593

:

That's huge.

594

:

So I, I, so that's the one part.

595

:

Yeah, it is reparenting.

596

:

It's, it's being your own

therapist in a way, learning to

597

:

give itself therapy, self healing.

598

:

And the other side to it,

599

:

which may seem paradoxical,

is essentially learning how to

600

:

confront yourself in a new way.

601

:

Learning how to be honest with yourself

in a new way, and, and, and I stress a new

602

:

way because because our genuine, or our

general way of, Confronting ourselves is,

603

:

is with the beatings, like the beatings

will continue until the, you know, morale

604

:

improves, like you were just sharing.

605

:

So, it's not like that at all,

but it's finding the courage to,

606

:

to feel the feelings that are in

your heart and to see whatever

607

:

needs to be seen within your heart.

608

:

And this is, I think the essence

of integration, psychological

609

:

integration, learning how to no longer

suppress and repress your emotions.

610

:

And there are sort of two layers to this.

611

:

One is what I think is like emotions

that are in the subconscious, just

612

:

like lightly shoved down, which is the

kinds of emotions that we might have.

613

:

like anger in a relationship

and we're in denial about it.

614

:

You see that every time someone's

in an argument, you're like,

615

:

why are you angry at me?

616

:

I'm not angry.

617

:

Super common thing.

618

:

We, we, we don't like to admit anger or,

or frustration or a lot of emotions that

619

:

Raven: we have.

620

:

It reminds me a lot of that circle.

621

:

I remember my therapist

telling me like, hate.

622

:

Is like in the same location as love.

623

:

Like it's just a circle.

624

:

They're not opposites.

625

:

They're actually right there.

626

:

Like that intense emotion.

627

:

If you hate someone, you also love

them because if you hate them enough,

628

:

that means that you care enough

and then you love them that much.

629

:

Wow.

630

:

Yeah.

631

:

Yeah.

632

:

Simon: Wow.

633

:

She was.

634

:

Yes.

635

:

And, and, but it's, it's buried and

sometimes it needs excavating in

636

:

order to, in order to get there.

637

:

It needs excavating.

638

:

And so there's, it's a hard

work that excavation and coming

639

:

to It's a huge challenge.

640

:

It's way more deep of a challenge than

it might sound or than we could, I would

641

:

ever have thought when I initially entered

on this path, just to feel what you, what

642

:

the feelings are that are in your heart.

643

:

And, and allow them to have a moment

of expression and, and recognition.

644

:

And so this is really the second thing is,

is the courage, cultivating that courage.

645

:

And I, I focus on courage

because ultimately the reason we.

646

:

repress the fear and the anger and the

hurt and those things is out of fear.

647

:

We have a fear of them and we have

a fear of them because we've never

648

:

learned how to manage them, how to

process them, how to deal with them.

649

:

And they're, they are frightening.

650

:

They can be very overwhelming

and they can have implications

651

:

on our life that we don't.

652

:

Know what they are what they'll

be and so we have a lot of good

653

:

reason to to have fear around the

feelings that are there in our heart.

654

:

But the problem is that if they're

in your heart, they're there.

655

:

They're already there.

656

:

They're in your heart.

657

:

And the only way to move beyond them

is, is to allow them to surface to give

658

:

them their moment and the courage is

a powerful focus, because I think what

659

:

happens when you summons your courage

is that we're not just dealing with.

660

:

A conscious level of process here, we're

dealing with a, a very subconscious

661

:

immediate, it's like a knee jerk reaction.

662

:

It's like something that happens in a

blink of an eye, you know, and You can't

663

:

control it consciously because it's a,

it's this mechanism that's in place.

664

:

It's like a hard wiring

to repress our feelings.

665

:

And so, but if you focus you focus

on cultivating the courage to, to

666

:

approach your heart and to approach

your feelings, it's like you get

667

:

in a heightened state of strength.

668

:

And when you get in that heightened

state of strength, it cues your

669

:

subconscious that okay, like, Simon's

ready to, to, to experience this and

670

:

the guard, the guard goes down a little

bit, and then you can hear a soft voice

671

:

in your heart that's like, I'm angry.

672

:

And and, and, and, and, and the more

you focus on this, focus on it, then

673

:

the more it grows and the more you can

start to, to see what's really going on.

674

:

Raven: Mm.

675

:

That is powerful.

676

:

I kept thinking the only way through it,

how do I forget how the saying says the

677

:

only way to essentially heal it is to feel

it or like there's some, there's another

678

:

phrase that rhymes about going through it.

679

:

Like you have to go through it.

680

:

Simon: The only way out is

681

:

Raven: through or yeah,

maybe that's the phrase.

682

:

Yeah.

683

:

I thought that one

rhymed, but I guess not.

684

:

Yeah.

685

:

The only way out is through.

686

:

And that's

687

:

Simon: true.

688

:

I think

689

:

Raven: that's exactly true.

690

:

I think that's exactly true.

691

:

Because if everything's hidden and

everything's unspoken or you're

692

:

just always covering it up with

anger, I mean, I feel like that's.

693

:

That's a bit of the problem with the

narcissist too, you know, because

694

:

like you said, you're just like, we've

all experienced with the narcissist.

695

:

We've seen when they are losing it.

696

:

Like we've seen their weakest

moment and we're like, Oh my

697

:

gosh, this is the real problem.

698

:

But then all of a sudden they'll

put the mask back on and be

699

:

like, Oh no, everything's fine.

700

:

And like, they'll just go on

with their song and dance again.

701

:

Right.

702

:

They didn't actually feel through it.

703

:

They had the moment to show us,

but then maybe, you know, also they

704

:

didn't know what to do with that.

705

:

So they just did what they always

do and they put the mask on.

706

:

Which we can do too.

707

:

We put on our victim hat on, we put on

our like, oh, I don't, it's hopeless, I

708

:

don't know what else to do, whatever our

role is in our emotional tool bag, that's

709

:

been shown us, and that's what we do.

710

:

So it is very courageous to feel through

that and be able to transmute it.

711

:

Into something.

712

:

Exactly

713

:

Simon: right.

714

:

That's exactly right.

715

:

Yeah.

716

:

It takes, it takes the most tremendous

courage and I think you're 100 percent

717

:

onto it that at the core of it,

that's, that's the problem with the

718

:

narcissist and I know there's, I've

seen so many movies also, this is in,

719

:

in, at the core of addiction in a way.

720

:

Right.

721

:

Raven: His addiction is covering, right?

722

:

Yeah.

723

:

Yeah.

724

:

Simon: Yeah.

725

:

And you see that like I remember

the, this movie, Papa, which is

726

:

about Ernest Hemingway, who was, you

know, this Courageous war veteran who

727

:

wrote these novels that just thought

of being this heroic, courageous

728

:

figure, but he was also an alcoholic.

729

:

He did this great job of showing how, you

know, despite having all this external

730

:

courage, what was really going on was

he was just cowering, , fear of these

731

:

feelings that he had in his heart and that

that's what drove him to, , to drinking.

732

:

Yeah.

733

:

, so yeah, I think, I think there's

a way in which the, the fear of the

734

:

things that are in our heart is, is

the ultimate driver of dysfunction.

735

:

In so many ways, and, and just to

circle around to one other thing,

736

:

since I mentioned it briefly, I

talked about the subconscious realm.

737

:

And then, but I also wanted to

mention there's an unconscious

738

:

realm of, of feelings.

739

:

And so the unconscious realm is like

the realm that I mentioned before,

740

:

like the deeply repressed realm.

741

:

When I talked about feelings that I

had, I suppressed as a child about.

742

:

How I could be evil, not just my

mom was, but maybe I'm, that's,

743

:

that's this like profound fear of,

of who I am in my ultimate state.

744

:

Yeah.

745

:

And so we, we have to learn to, you

know, delve through both of those, the

746

:

subconscious realm and the unconscious

realm and, and, and heal all of those

747

:

those feelings that, that were, We're

carrying around in our heart and and

748

:

that is the, the path of the self

salutation that, that I that I teach.

749

:

So it's those two meditations.

750

:

The, the self acceptance and the, the

courage of, of self confrontation.

751

:

Yeah, having, having the courage of.

752

:

Self honesty.

753

:

Raven: Self honesty I think is really

what's helped me change or heal I would

754

:

have to say even the way that I parent

my husband's really good at like just

755

:

asking super honest , you're not going

to like this, but what if it's this?

756

:

And I'm like, Ooh, I don't like

that, but I guess I'll evaluate that.

757

:

And without him, I probably

would never consider it because.

758

:

I don't want to believe that, right?

759

:

That's really hard on your own.

760

:

So it does take somebody or something,

some container, I would think, to help

761

:

facilitate that because we're not going

to just voluntarily or even know that

762

:

it's under there to do that on our own.

763

:

Simon: Yeah, yeah, it's a tough,

it's a we, we all just have a huge

764

:

amount of resistance towards it.

765

:

We have a huge amount of

resistance towards it.

766

:

But that's why I think that, so I

developed, honestly, I developed the self

767

:

salutation as a practice for myself, first

and foremost, and I For many years, I, I

768

:

still do it most days, but for many years,

I just was really, really rigorous and,

769

:

and disciplined about it just because

I realized, like, I got to get ahead

770

:

of this problem and, and the unwinding

of this entire system is something that

771

:

we have to be really proactive about.

772

:

Because I,

773

:

I watched my life just totally

fall apart when I was 40.

774

:

When I left the monastic life, I

didn't, it wasn't pretty, like it was,

775

:

it was, it was not the way I wanted.

776

:

And when my life fell apart in such a

profound way at that time, I, I had to

777

:

determine like, okay, like whatever I

need to do, I need to really do it because

778

:

I don't want to go through that again.

779

:

Yeah, you know, and and it was like,

the problem was that it was years and

780

:

years of just putting things under

there, putting things under the rug,

781

:

putting things under the rug, throwing

things down into the basement and And

782

:

Raven: then kind of meditating above it.

783

:

Exactly.

784

:

Yeah.

785

:

Yeah.

786

:

Exactly.

787

:

And I'll put that mess down here

and let me just levitate up here.

788

:

No problem.

789

:

Okay.

790

:

Simon: Yeah.

791

:

Doesn't matter.

792

:

Not going to deal with

793

:

Raven: it.

794

:

Yeah.

795

:

And then, then one day they, they

crept up and they, you couldn't hide.

796

:

It was a cascading.

797

:

Yeah,

798

:

Simon: exactly.

799

:

Exactly.

800

:

It was a cascading event and you know,

I had the ultimate kind of escape.

801

:

Like, those are my parents

from this lifetime.

802

:

Raven: Oh, yes.

803

:

Right.

804

:

I have experienced that too.

805

:

It's like I've heard and who knows?

806

:

Like, I, I believe it, but

I don't, but it's like.

807

:

But this is my reality now on

earth, like I've had Nekashik

808

:

reading and I love her dearly.

809

:

I love it.

810

:

It was really profound

for me at the moment.

811

:

But it is like, that contract is over.

812

:

You're strangers in the,

you know, soul world.

813

:

And so that kind of makes your

mind go, like, and it kind of

814

:

gives you an excuse, like, Oh, I

don't have to talk to them now.

815

:

Totally separate

816

:

Simon: from this entirely.

817

:

I don't have to

818

:

Raven: worry about it at all.

819

:

Yeah, which takes away, takes

away responsibility of maybe

820

:

your life lesson here on Earth.

821

:

Simon: You're just.

822

:

Exactly, exactly.

823

:

Yeah, yeah.

824

:

We're just, we're just like, here's

a great example that was, you know,

825

:

that, that I used to teach and we

were just like, you know, driftwood

826

:

floating in a, down a river, sometimes

it combines with other driftwood

827

:

and then, you know, it separates.

828

:

That's, you know, that's our

relationships here on this, on this world.

829

:

Raven: And so many explanations

to skirt our responsibilities,

830

:

Simon: I guess.

831

:

Yeah, I mean, you know, I don't know,

from an ultimate, like, cosmological

832

:

perspective, like from the perspective of

eternity, there may be some truth to that,

833

:

I guess, but really, like the reality

is still, you need to deal with the

834

:

relationship that you have with the earth.

835

:

Raven: Right.

836

:

I know.

837

:

That's, I'm so earth grounded.

838

:

Like, I'm so spiritualistic, like,

yes, totally believe in reincarnation,

839

:

all the lives, all the stuff.

840

:

Yeah.

841

:

But what about right now right like

that will be will be like we'll figure

842

:

it out once we leave this body But

what are we gonna do right now here?

843

:

Exactly.

844

:

Yeah, and that's what keeps pulling

me to be more responsible with how I'm

845

:

you know Repairing those relationships

or even trying and on all the things I

846

:

Simon: agree.

847

:

I agree a hundred percent.

848

:

Yeah, exactly.

849

:

And what's the meaning of these

relationships if it's not to bring us to

850

:

the point of that reconciliation healing.

851

:

So, yeah, yeah, I think that's So you, you

852

:

Raven: develop these for yourself out

of the pain of that kind of existential

853

:

crisis out of the, The monastic service.

854

:

Yeah,

855

:

Simon: I did.

856

:

Yeah.

857

:

Exactly.

858

:

Exactly.

859

:

Yeah.

860

:

The existential crisis that happened

when I, when, I mean, the, the my, when

861

:

my monastic life imploded and I realized

like, okay, I need to I need to face a

862

:

different reality here and, and try and

then realized all the ways that I had.

863

:

essentially entered a

religious institution.

864

:

I, I entered Hinduism because I, I

thought like, ah, I need a spiritual

865

:

path where I can not end up in a,

as a religious institutional figure,

866

:

but be on a spiritual journey.

867

:

But I ended up In many ways, realizing

that I had become kind of crusty as a,

868

:

as a monk and as a religious figure, I

mean, it's easy to do people project all

869

:

kinds of things on monks, because it seems

impossible to people to imagine, like

870

:

being a monk and therefore they I think

started to treat me very differently,

871

:

especially after I've been a monk for

like eight or ten years, people kind of

872

:

have a, you know, a sense of respect

towards me that is easy to hide

873

:

behind then and not to worry about.

874

:

And so, so when I left the trappings

of that life and entered the wilds.

875

:

I the wild,

876

:

Raven: the great unknown.

877

:

Simon: Yeah.

878

:

Yeah.

879

:

No, it was like, it was kind of

like going from being in a nursery

880

:

setting for like a plant and then just

being planted in the, in the wild.

881

:

And so when that happened,

then there was so much.

882

:

I had to do that, that this speak,

this practice became a refuge for me.

883

:

And the more that I studied

in different ways of personal

884

:

transformation and healing, the, the,

the more the practice developed and.

885

:

solidified into, into what it is.

886

:

And I also so, so I mentioned the core

process of you know, the meditation

887

:

doing the, the two meditations

that I, that I mentioned I named

888

:

my meditations after animals also.

889

:

So, so I do.

890

:

Yeah.

891

:

So, so the self acceptance

is named after the moose.

892

:

Which Native Americans say

embodies self acceptance.

893

:

Raven: Where can we access all of these?

894

:

Simon: Well my website, selfsalutation.

895

:

com, is great.

896

:

I have a free newsletter in,

that I share once a week.

897

:

I, I send out an email which

discusses one component or

898

:

another of the self salutation.

899

:

And there's, there's also a

component to it which, I talk

900

:

about, which is really nice.

901

:

I love the point you said earlier about

hiding behind anger, how we often use

902

:

anger to hide other deeper feelings like

the feeling of being hurt by someone.

903

:

I think a lot of anger is really just

an expression of feeling of being hurt.

904

:

There's something very

vulnerable underneath it.

905

:

Raven: You know, when someone's

angry at you, they deeply care.

906

:

Versus they hate you and they want

you to go away, but that takes.

907

:

That mindset of emotional maturity,

like, oh, okay, I'm going to

908

:

put my ego in the back burner.

909

:

I'm still going to go and find

out why they're angry because

910

:

there's something deeper there.

911

:

Simon: That's so wise.

912

:

Yeah.

913

:

That's so true.

914

:

That's

915

:

Raven: so true.

916

:

I hope that helps me with my daughters.

917

:

That's what I'm saying.

918

:

They're teenage years.

919

:

Let's just hope that gets

me through teenage years.

920

:

Simon: The last point that I wanted to

share about this process, which I think

921

:

is really important, is that I think

our whole way of talking about emotions

922

:

is very limited because we just have

one term that encompasses them all.

923

:

Emotions.

924

:

, or we might divide them into two, which

is to say good emotions and bad emotions.

925

:

Right.

926

:

And good feelings and bad feelings.

927

:

And whereas I think the reality is there

are, there's a lot of more nuance to

928

:

it and especially what I want to point

out is that some emotions are really

929

:

just masks for other deeper emotions.

930

:

like the anger that you pointed to.

931

:

And so I think Real emotional intelligence

is starting to learn when an emotion that

932

:

you're experiencing is actually not as

important as it might feel on its own.

933

:

Right?

934

:

So, when you feel anger, it may

feel very important and very true

935

:

and very, like, like, riveting,

like, this is the problem, when in

936

:

reality, that's not the issue at all.

937

:

There's something deeper that you can,

that you can glean from it, and, and if

938

:

you can take a little time to process

through that, Preliminary emotion that

939

:

you're feeling to get to the the deeper

reality of what's going on in your heart.

940

:

And so I call the surface

emotions syndromes.

941

:

I have a number of

syndromes that I talk about.

942

:

Because a lot of times we don't

even feel them as emotions,

943

:

they're more like ways of thinking.

944

:

And, you know, we might feel, because we

kind of tend to deny emotions also, so.

945

:

So the process that I teach is about

learning how to recognize, Oh, , I'm

946

:

in a, I'm stuck in a syndrome.

947

:

And, and if I want to resolve it,

it's not going to resolve on, I'm

948

:

not going to get through it by

trying to take it at its face value.

949

:

Like that this is the problem,

I'm gonna have to pry beneath the

950

:

surface of this syndrome and uncover

what the core emotion is that's

951

:

underneath it that I need to handle.

952

:

And, , in this way, , you can

really disengage a lot of emotions

953

:

that bother us throughout the day.

954

:

You can unplug them very quickly.

955

:

, and get at the heart of what's really

going on in your heart and enjoy a lot

956

:

more happiness in your day to day.

957

:

Raven: Yeah, it really sounds

like something that can benefit.

958

:

All the empaths who are just struggling

with like so much brain fog and heartache

959

:

and confusion And trying to heal it

sounds like a very grounding practice

960

:

that I look forward to doing as well

961

:

yeah, yeah.

962

:

Thank

963

:

Simon: you for your work.

964

:

Well, thank you.

965

:

Thank you very much.

966

:

.

Raven: Thank you so much.

967

:

Yeah.

968

:

And you can find the

link to selfsalutation.

969

:

com in the show notes.

970

:

Wonderful.

971

:

Yeah.

972

:

Thank you so much for being here.

973

:

Thanks, Raven.

974

:

I appreciate it.

975

:

Yeah.

976

:

Absolutely.

977

:

Thank you so much for tuning into the

end of this podcast episode and being

978

:

an empath member here in the community.

979

:

Don't forget to grab your

free somatic healing workshop.

980

:

And or human design chart

report in the show notes.

981

:

I need your help please rate and review

my newest book Empath's guide to rising

982

:

strong a human design guide book.

983

:

You can grab a free Kindle,

unlimited copy to read and review.

984

:

Or grab a beautiful

paperback copy on Amazon.

985

:

Be sure to listen to the empath

and narcissist audible book.

986

:

If you haven't already.

987

:

Or you can grab your paperback on Amazon.

988

:

It

989

:

is a profound exploration of my

journey and healing providing you

990

:

with tools for healing as well.

991

:

All the links are in the show notes.

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About the Podcast

Empath And the Narcissist: Spiritual Healing with Human Design from Narcissistic Abuse & PTSD
Helping Empaths Heal from Narcissistic Abuse with Human Design
Do you feel trapped in a cycle of abuse, constantly wondering if it's your fault?
In this podcast I shed light on powerful tools for healing and spread awareness and education about Narcissistic Abuse.
This show aims to empower you to shift from being on the emotional rollercoaster of lost and confused in the fog of the Narcissist, to thriving and knowing your authentic self.

You will get messages to your soul three times a week, (T,TH,Sat.) in recovery & healing from Narcissist abuse and childhood trauma through Human Design, self care, mindfulness advice, and expert interviews.

If you are ready to shift from survivor to thriver then hit follow and listen to regain your sparkle back after narcissistic abuse.

And listen to S5 Ep. 10: Are Narcissists Master Manipulators or Idiots? to start
https://link.chtbl.com/first_step_ep?sid=shownotes

"When it comes to the story of your life, let no one else hold the pen." - Raven Scott

Your host: Raven is a Narcissist abuse survivor, Author, Certified Meditation Teacher and Human Design Reader. More than 10 years later I now am a happily married mom of two, and passionate about preventing people from entering into toxic relationships and helping victims leave and overcome the pain from narcissist abuse.

Healing from PTSD, emotional abuse, havoc on your self worth from the Narcissist requires months to years of self care, EFT tapping, inner child meditation, self care, self discovery, journaling, and support in therapy from professionals and coaches. All tools which you can practice with Raven in her book Empath & The Narcissist.

Topics covered:
Tuesday: Narc Abuse Healing with Human Design Info
Thursday: Guest Featured Healing Tools
Saturday: Wednesday's Live Replay YouTube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7aia23E-LDXhZobUmzTcgg
Get your FREE Human Design Personalized Chart and gain healing messages via you inbox
https://ravenscott.aweb.page/healing-from-abuse

Listen NOW!
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About your host

Profile picture for Raven Scott

Raven Scott

Raven Scott is a survivor of an abusive relationship with a narcissist. From people pleaser to kick ass author, podcaster, & mentor, she is a certified meditation teacher and Destiny Coach. She teaches you how to shed people-pleasing patterns one step at a time to find your power & potential through healing so you can kick ass in THIS life. Her focus is to help you tune into your soul’s healing, learning & purpose with intuition, meditations, North Node Medicine & Human Design. Join her in soul-filled podcast community on Facebook. Women Empaths Self Development to Unlock Your Destiny