Why Narcissism is Rampant in the World with Psychologist Phyllis Leavitt

70. Why Narcissism is rampant in today's world

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a trauma informed spiritual mentor, certified meditation teacher, and human design expert. I'm empowering empaths in recovery and healing from narcissistic abuse childhood trauma through human design self-care mindfulness advice and expert interviews Subscribe now This is season five

This is episode 70. Why Narcissism is rampant in today's world,

narcissists are everywhere, and it's not just in the celebrity world. They can be hard to spot, but they do exist. Discover why narcissism is rampant in today's society and how to detect it with our guest. Phyllis, leave it. Are you mystified? Why so many of us support the kinds of hatred and violence in our country that we would not want in our lives?

Do you know that this is a result of a severe mental health crisis

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The, the purpose is to repair. It's not to find out who's right and who's wrong. And that's where we're so off in our country. If we had a goal to repair our human relations, we wouldn't be where we are now. We would be listening. We would be wanting to, we would listen the way we wanna be heard, we would doing, we would be doing to other people the things that we want to have be done to us,

Psychology and counseling In: 1989

children, families, couples, and individual adults. For 32 years, she has seen so many cases and has come to this awakening with two other books she's written. In her newest book called Bringing About America, bringing America to Therapy because she sees how rampant this issue is, and maybe because it's more prevalent and more acceptable to go to therapy, but even so if everything was hidden, oh my gosh, like how rampant was mental health before therapy became the norm.

She's worked extensively with abuse and dysfunctional family dynamics. Their aftermath and some of the most important elements for healing. The other two books that she's published are called A Light In the Darkness and Into the Fire, and she is gonna be sharing with us today her new book. So without further ado, let's dive into the conversation.

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My own mind was incapable of knowing on its own. In my case. I have been blessed in that relationship with another consciousness that comes in the form of distinct messages. That I write down as I hear them, some of which I have written about in two books, which I mentioned in your, the beginning here is a light in the darkness and into the fire.

Tell us more about that, that dark moment and, and finding almost like you're illuminating hero awakening.

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So basically what happened was I was keeping a journal while I was doing some very intensive inner work on basically trying to heal the primary wound that had resulted in me being attracted to people who weren't good for me, people who were all about themselves and unable to love. Basically, which I think is the hallmark of narcissism.

So I was in that place and I was keeping a journal and I was at a very low place in that journey and I've always been a very spiritual person. But I had kind of turned to psychology because I felt that spiritual practice by itself was not healing this core wound. And in it may for some people, but it wasn't at that time for me.

And then the worlds kind of came together. I was writing in my journal and I basically said, I don't know what to do. God, I, I am, I was, I was having massive panic attacks and anxiety. I had a hard time sleeping. Sometimes I felt like I couldn't leave my house. And I wrote that in my journal and all of a sudden a divine voice.

And I call it a divine voice because I, it is. Began to speak to me about what my soul was doing in the form of Phyllis and what this was all about from a soul's perspective of this journey that we make in human form through these very human experiences where we're fragile and fallible and and also.

Capable of magnificent creations and consciousness. So that's what that was about. And and one of the reasons why I'm kind of grateful that you started that way is because I see the whole world of psychology. And the book that I'm writing, as you said, is really about, I don't, I haven't looked at, I haven't used the word narcissism actually in my book, which is because I'm, I'm not sort of like diagnosing what I'm talking about is dynamics.

The dynamics of the individual. As they mirror what is going on in the country. So if we wa, I'm happy to use the word narcissism. The narcissism of abusers who are unable or unwilling to see the impact that they're having on the people that they exploit or hurt or vent their violence on or take from, or condemn or ostracize the narcissism that they.

Exhibit and the lack of empathy they have for the people that they hurt is exactly what I see happening in the country. That we have people in power who are exhibiting the same dynamics and behaviors with the same effect on masses of people that an individual narcissist or abuser in a given family has on their family members or a narcissistic employer or someone in, in a position of authority over others.

So, The how I see the world's coming together and then, take off from wherever you wanna take this, is that I really believe that. Healing our psychological wounds, being able to love ourselves, make better boundaries around people who are not good for us or circumstances who are not good for us.

And have empathy for the wounded part of all of us, which I think is part of what an empath has. I think where empass often gets stuck is they have empathy, but they don't necessarily have internalized really good boundaries of protection.

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And I think right now, and going back to sort of like the family therapy model that the health of the family is a, has a large. Part to do with the health of the individual. So the health of the family of America has a large influence on the health of the populace of America. As we, as we grow, as we heal our wounds, and as we make use of the things that we now know can heal some of our wounds, I believe we're open to an awareness that is, That really holds the value of the part in relationship to the whole and the whole in relationship to the part.

And to me, that's part of a spiritual awakening,

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beautiful.

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Is N P D something that starts, like is rooted in childhood and what is that cause? Is it always trauma or is it. What part of the family dynamic kind of creates a child to be a narcissist?

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Would none of us do that perfectly? We're all learning in this process of parenting and partnering for sure. But there's, there's a, there's a, a, a fundamental foundation of what's good for all of us. And, and, and that kind of a family system, as imperfect as it might be, doesn't produce someone who only cares about themself.

And I think that's true on the individual level, and I think that's true on the national level. So

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still stuck in their childhood issues

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Or they're at the direct effect of a discriminatory, abusive policy

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Like how is that gonna stop whatever your child's doing, if you think it's wrong?

That's horrible.

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And that's exactly what's happening in our country. The discrepancy in wages and income and healthcare, all the racially discriminatory policies that marginalize people and deprive them of opportunity, and then they're symptomatic, they're poor, or they commit crimes to. Feed their family. And then we punish them for that and label them.

And that's exactly what abusers do.

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And the first category is what we call in the world of psychology, learned helplessness. They learn to be submissive because. That's what they had to do. They were overpowered and fighting back, often produced worse consequences. So there's an, there's an imprint of learned helplessness and those people are more likely to be drawn to and dominated by people who.

Will dominate who are not submissive, and the other outcome is the opposite. It's what we call again in the world of psychology identification with the aggressor. So it's those people who have been hurt, who are like, there's nothing, I'm never gonna be a victim again. And they identify with the aggressor and they often identify with aggressors.

And so they become abusers or narcissists, and they are attracted to narcissistic, abusive kinds of people in positions of power and support them because it boosts that feeling of power that was actually taken from them.

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In our culture.

It reminds me of what was happening with, Fox and the whole like, oh, well they were lying about the January 6th and then all these doc, they got sued, so then all these documents are being revealed. And they, they didn't believe it, but they were like, well, they were the submissives, right?

They were, they were the ones submitting to this powerful, abusive, dunno what to call 'em, leader. He who must not be named, I like to say,

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And some, sometimes, a person, sometimes someone who's really been overpowered and is basically an, an empath by nature will tend to be more the submissive.

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it's like you have to rise up and be the hero and like have integrity.

Like why would you do that to the American people?

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And, and that's part of, part of why I wrote the book is because, because basically, One of the things that we are all conditioned to believe is that this great divide going on in America today is either the battle between good and evil, or it's ideological. One person stands for this politics, another person stands for that.

And my contention, and I don't think I'm alone in this, but I definitely deduced this out of my experience, is that it's not an ideological issue. It's not even a political issue, it's a mental health issue. Because mentally healthy people sit down and try to work out their problems with one another, peacefully with respect, with deep listening, or they try to learn how to do that.

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They're in relationship to themself. And I think, let me backtrack a little bit just to say this, because part of what I talk about in my book is that this is happening from the bottom up, which I is the individual and the individual family and the top down big institutions that are run on abusive, dysfunctional dynamics and they, they weave together.

And, I've been a therapist for over 32 years, and I've worked with lots of people that I, I, I say it like this, they're just like you and me. They have families, they go to work. They don't commit crimes. They have C friends, they try to do constructive things in their communities or whatever, but basic human beings like us who come from the most atrocious backgrounds, There is so much abuse in our country.

There is so little focus on what's actually healthy for children and families and couples and people in the workplace. We have not bec, we are not people-centered. We are very much money and power centered and sex centered and I think that is what's mushrooming out into the mental illness that pervades our society today.

And it looks like narcissism. We're trained to be independent. That's the value. Like, I can take care of myself when

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We're born that way neurologically. We have survived for thousands of years, tribally. It's only now that we've somehow skewed, and I think it's also part of the narcissism to believe, skewed ourselves to believe that we're supposed to be these. Pillars that stand alone and that's supposed to be sexually attractive and that doesn't feed intimacy and relationship.

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It's crazy.

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, we're gonna cover after a commercial break.

How can we as an individual. Be able to fight this versus thinking that, oh, it's a collective and we have to like, we just have to give up

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And that's part of the reason why I wrote the book, because really the answers are not that. They're not complicated, they're not rocket science. They're things we know of what helps heal abuse in families and or the after effects of abuse in individuals.

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are those?

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We can't keep escalating toward violence in war and think we're gonna survive. So the first step is really getting that I'm in pain. I'm not denying that I'm in pain and I want help for my pain. And I think as a country we, we really need to face that this, our country is in pain, people are suffering. And the mass murders and the children in cages are all symptoms of that.

So, when people come to therapy, the fir some of the elements that really are healing just to begin with without even doing a process, are I'm creating a safe place for you to speak your truth. For you to tell how bad it was, what happened to you, but also if you feel like there's ways that you haven't been so good to other people, it's safe for you to talk about that too.

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So we have to, we have to drop that and really have an attitude, which, which a good therapist does of, I'm looking for the core you, the essential you. That was always there before anything happened to you. Before you experienced what you did before you did what you did. And I'm speaking to that. Because that's the core you, the essential part of you that is actually gonna join me on this healing journey.

And if you have ever been in the presence of someone who saw you that way, who looked at you, not through, you know how you look and what you've done, and how much money you make and all the rest, but they see you, that in itself is healing. And any of us can do that for each other. Any of us can do that for each other instead of judging and evaluating and criticizing.

Okay. So that's one thing that's, that's building safety. Building trust is I can tell you anything and you will be with me and you will root for me to heal. Not, not, you know what I'm saying? Like I'm in your corner. I'm rooting for you to heal.

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We teach each other how to do that. So, We make eye statements instead of blaming you, you, you, you, you like, this is how I feel. This is what happened for me when you did blah, blah. This is what I need from you. And because one of the things that we don't teach our children, and I never learned, at, at all is that, we all wanna be heard.

Every single person wants to be heard no matter where they are. Right? But we don't give that to each other. So the learning is that I need to learn how to listen to you the way I want you to listen to me. If we had that in Congress right now, we'd have a different country.

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Most people, unless they're really disturbed or they're really, like off the deep end in some, I don't know what the can't think of the word. They're just way out there on some end of a continuum. Most people have something valid to say that needs to be heard

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The, the purpose is to repair. It's not to find out who's right and who's wrong. And that's where we're so off in our country. If we had a goal to repair our human relations, we wouldn't be where we are now. We would be listening. We would be wanting to, we would listen the way we wanna be heard, we would doing, we would be doing to other people the things that we want to have be done to us,

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Where you were deeply wounded, like h how do

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e, like I said, I've been in [: 00:31:40

There's, I only had one client that I actually terminated with because their narcissistic rage was, I couldn't penetrate.

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Well, tell me about when you grew up, what was the role model of your parents? What are the, where, where did you take on? And I, and I have done a lot of emdr. I don't know if you've heard of

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And it focuses on the negative ones because that's what we're trying to heal and the beliefs that you took on. So if someone said, you're fat and ugly when you're a kid and you took that on, it's not true, but you, it came to feel true. So, Good therapy. EMDR really identifies what those negative beliefs are and the ways that we learn to cope with them, because that becomes the pattern of our life.

I hid, I became a people pleaser. I made myself up to try to look like a different person. I dieted, uncontrollably,

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We see people get better. We see people function better in their relationships or with their children, or leave, not good work environments and find a better place to be employed. So it's possible.

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for the others, at least a couple others to kind of stand up in their power and be like, yeah, I'm not gonna be controlled by this person anymore. And it's the same thing in our personal lives.

Yeah. So it sounds very much like, my other question and or thought was, if so many of us impass feel like we can heal the narcissist in our own intimate relationships, which I feel is a very dangerous slope to go down, cuz you're enabling their behavior versus. Removing yourself and recommending them go to therapy, or maybe that's your boundary. Like, I really love you, we should stay together, but in order for that to happen, you need to go to therapy.

Is that kind of the only way that they can be fixed? So there's, there's hope that the narcis can change, but it's gonna take a lot of work through therapy.

Is that correct?

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Or you need to go to therapy or we're done, or some, but sometimes it's, sometimes it's seriously like, I'm not going to be in that argument with you. When you're ready to sit down and talk with me, I will talk with you if you're going to listen to me. So, so the healing for the empath, and, and I say this in general too, like one person can change the step in the dance.

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And she said, You stopped drinking or we're done.

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Like you're, buck up. You should be, get over it, move on. But actually part of, part of good therapy and part of healing is feeling our pain in a safe place with the, goal of repair.

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the question and it's gonna go political, but, that's just our last political question, my l my lovely empaths, so don't worry. all fix ourselves individually and it'll all ripple out so you don't have to fix the world

around you and be upset. But the, the question I have is so, so many people, like you're talking, I feel like you're talking about the gun laws and the stances and people I think all agree that there shouldn't be any more mass shootings, but we can some, the certain parties continue to support people.

Who are held or want the money from the gun lobbies. So therefore, putting everyone at risk, and let's say they don't, but then they're, let's say they're, there's like one aspect of that person they vote for, that they agree with, but all the other five reasons that they are for, they disagree with. Like in your perspective as a therapist, like how do we shift that?

Like how do we shift people? To be more in, to have more integrity when they're voting or, you know what I mean? Like it's like a one issue that they vote for this horrible idea of still having guns, let's say for instance. Does that make

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Between what we all want for ourselves. I wanna be safe. I wanna have enough food. I wanna live in a safe place. I wanna have heat and light and and I wanna have a community around me that is supportive. We all, we all want that. I have never met one person that didn't want more love in their life.

I've never met one person who wanted more hate or more violence. Ever, and I've never worked with anyone who uncovered that desire. When we peel back the layers, we all want more love and connection and safety, and there's a huge gap in our country and around the world between what we want for ourselves and what we vote for, and what we condone be done to other people.

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I can ask for what I want from my partner, but I have to start with my own solid stand inside myself, my own values, my own whatever. And then I try to bring that out into the world. So. So if we're, if we're talking about how, I don't know how you get people to change their vote. I think they have to, we have to start with like an attitude of healing.

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Like I said, there are people we don't know how to rehabilitate. I get that. And there are people that are not safe, but there are so many people who, who have been so deeply wounded, who end up in the criminal justice system and they, they haven't had a chance at life.

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autonomy. Yes,

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So I give up like, no, we can't give up at this time in juncture. We all need to place our votes to protect each other. Work together.

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Because I'm, I'm really excited for that to come out. So yeah, that's what I'm working on right now.

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And I was like, okay, sure. And so we went to, and I didn't realize she, she wanted, she had two of them to deliver. I thought it was just the one neighbor that they play with. And it was so sweet. I was like, this is what we need to be doing con, connecting with our neighbors, sharing them just a little bit of light and

love.

Yeah.

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And it was really beautiful.

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It reminds me of a show that I just recently watched on Netflix ,

d after a devastating fire in: 1897

But in this fire, the men were literally beating women back in order to save themselves. There was one exit. They were trampling women, pushing them to the back and running off to save themselves. These male aristocrats, which reminds me of the narcissistic mindset. So how do we fix this in our society?

Well, first we start at home and then it will ripple out. So number one is create a safe, nonjudgmental space. Create a safe non-judgmental space. Number two is use I statements. I feel when you do this, it's very disrespectful. I feel sad when you do this. I feel disrespected when you yell at me when I get some minor detail wrong.

And I feel it's inappropriate. Number three, draw boundaries. Number four, there are consequences when the boundaries are crossed, and all of those are customed to you in your situation, and I hope that this has inspired you to draw those boundaries. To not enable the bad behavior within your family, within yourself, within your children, and it will ripple out so that we can shift.

We are entering into the the incarnation cross era of the rise of the sleeping phoenix. We need to rise up. We need to wake up and do it through love. Vote through love, our vote matters. And the more of us who are pushed down and oppressed by the narcissist, when we vote, we speak up, we do the right thing, it will inspire others to be brave to also do the right thing.

So press on your empath and, Be brave woman and men sensitive empaths in our bravery,

and when we rise up and shift into integrity.

Then and only then will we be able to shift our society.

I am so grateful for you listening, finding the show, and sharing it with your friends. It would give a great boost in the heart center to algorithm to rate and review this podcast. If you are enjoying it, take a screenshot, share it on your socials, share it in a text message to a friend that you know right now needs to be pulled out of the quicksand.

And remember, always key. You're you unique, light shining.

Losing time, I'm fade in fast. I just wanna make it last. Try to let go of the past. I close my eyes. Embrace the blast. Sleepless nights and headache restlessness to hell and back. What's my purpose? But do I grab a slippery resu surface, a heart attack? Sometimes you just gotta something that'll give you relief.

What we're broken. It's tragic. We're not all elastic, but maybe there's magic. Believe you could have it.