How Human Design Can Free Empaths From Narcissistic Abuse on Tricia Carr's Podcast

How to Discern in Your Human Design Chart your Vulnerabilities to Narcissistic Abuse

Tricia 0:01

narcissism is a huge problem and really truly a source of abuse in society today. narcissists seem to prey on highly sensitive and empathic people. And I would also say that they, the narcissist preys on deeply compassionate, healthy and successful people. And in fact, there are many ways that possibly anyone could be vulnerable to narcissistic abuse. In this episode, my very special guests and I discuss different ways that anyone possibly could be vulnerable to narcissistic abuse we and the way that you can actually discern your own vulnerabilities and how to stay free of these abusive relationships through the wisdom of your human design. So stay tuned for this conscious conversation with my amazing guest, author podcaster and spiritual mentor Raven Scott and be sure to have your human design chart handy.

Unknown Speaker 1:06

Hello, and welcome to the charm to life podcast.

Speaker 1 1:15

This podcast is all about magic, metaphysics, mysticism and the unconditional love of the universe. And I am your host, my name is Tricia Carr.

Speaker 1 1:30

Welcome welcome. And this is Trisha and I am a five one reflector and a huge part of my journey of recovering from, you know, all kinds of conditioning. But yes, I have had repeated relationships of narcissistic abuse knock wood, don't have any other ones that are going to really stick around. And I am very excited to dive into this topic because this very topic of how to discern your potential vulnerabilities to narcissistic abuse by your human design has been something I have been contemplating and meditating for the last year in deep detail. So welcome to the show. My very special guests that the author of incredible books, which we're going to talk about, and a really valuable and prolific podcast, Raven Scott, thanks for being here.

Raven Scott 2:17

Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1 2:19

I want to talk upfront about your incredible book because those who are here and welcome welcome. By the way, we are live streaming this. So you may be listening to it on the podcast. We also live stream the podcast. So Raven and I are here, live and direct. So those of you who are here live, I would love for you to drop a comment, tell us where you're watching from. And if you have any questions or comments that you would like to make, we would love to, you know, hear what you have to say about this topic and what possibly would have happened to you any questions that you have? Is that cool with you Raven, like we we look at? Yeah, yeah, good. Good.

Speaker 2 2:54

I'm a generator. I love to respond. So please comment. That's right,

Speaker 1 2:58

let's, let's create some response for Ravens. So can we please, before we dive into this topic that I'm again, so excited to hear the ways that you'll help us to understand our vulnerabilities in our through our human design to this narcissistic issue that we have in society. And you have a wonderful book that is you have to and your newest one is the empath guide to Rising Strong would you like to share that some information about that for us? Yeah,

Speaker 2 3:28

it's my newest book baby. It really takes the my favorite exercises from the first book, and I've created like an in depth workbook. And there's four parts to it. I've added the story of Goddess Anona, the ancient Mesopotamian goddess to help us walk through the underworld and back out just like how it feels being with a narcissist, and helping us with our shadow work to cleanse out all of that. And then part two is all about Moon rituals. It's a big part of my work is releasing all of the pain that you can't get closure with from the narcissist through Moon through the moon rituals and burning and transmuting. So for every zodiac, and wherever the moon is, and each Zodiac can have a ritual for you in there. And then I have guided meditations in the second one to help you heal even further. And then a huge section is all about human design. Because people would ask me when they got their free chart, like how do I learn more? How do I dive deeper on my own? And I kept going, Well, you could buy this book, you could buy that book. I'm like, why don't I just put it all together in my own book. That's what I from my own viewpoint of what what human design is and what does it mean to be a projector? What does it mean to have split definitions or inner authority? All these things are really confusing. It's like alien language. So I tried to ground it and make it simple.

Speaker 1 4:50

Yes. And so for the audience in case I mean a lot of people who are watching or listening. They've been hearing me talk about it for a while so they put probably have some foundation but just in case we have people who are stumbling across it for the first time, we'll do that little boilerplate Human Design is a synthesis of four ancient spiritual technologies, or you might say, observational sciences and one modern science. So the modern science is quantum physics. And then we have astrology, the chakra system, the eaching, and the Kabbalah, Kabbalah Tree of Life, specifically. And what it does is by your natal birth time and place and everything will pull through a chart, it's really isn't it like your user manual for your your body and your personality? It is like, it comes from to specific imprints of your development. That's three proximately, three months before you're born, and then that moment of birth, is 88 degrees of the sun. Exactly, yeah. And it creates this, which, when you first look at, you're like, I have no idea what to do with that.

Unknown Speaker 5:53

You're like, it looks like alien language.

Speaker 1 5:56

And when I first because I'm a reflector, when I first when someone was in my studio, she had just taken my class that I was like, giving in person, so it's before the pandemic, clearly. And she got my chart and she goes, Ah, you're a reflector. And I was like, Okay, well, that means I'm

Unknown Speaker 6:13

so excited to be here with you. You're so rare.

Speaker 1 6:18

That's a nice perspective. But for a lot of reflectors, who first hear it? That sounds like you're weird, you're odd, and nobody gets you. And that's why yes, all of your fears are real, because of our conditioning that we're listening to, you know, how we hear the rarity, you know, all of your centers are open. That means she'd already been talking to my other friend who was here about her chart. And she's, that means you have no definition and you have no consistent way of being or whatever things she was saying. I was like, so I'm not a person. Exactly. It's

Speaker 2 6:47

so confusing the way it's worded. It's like, so I don't have this energy. So I don't have I don't have Yeah, yeah, so it's not that

Speaker 1 6:55

it really does for any edit. By the way. I love Do you like Karen curry? Parker, she really brings some wisdom. I think

Speaker 2 7:02

she's fine, because mentors. Oh, really? Oh, good. Is

Speaker 1 7:06

that where you got a lot of your training from Karen or?

Unknown Speaker 7:09

Yes.

Speaker 1 7:12

Well, I love to attribute when I'm going to quote someone she says you are a once in a lifetime cosmic event. And so everyone is rare and special and unique. And the human design, body graph helps us to understand that. So anyway, just a little bit about the basis of human design, you can get your free chart anyway, just Google free human design chart. Jovian archive is, you know, the main resource for it, and there's many others. So having laying that foundation, where shall we start Raven? What What are? What are some things that you can share with us about this Empath, and narcissistic trauma bond? And what do you I guess you want to start with like? What is an empath? And who is an empath? And what are the capacities of being an empath? Since that's a huge part of your work?

Speaker 2 7:55

Yeah, that is a big part of my work. I think the empath what I'm finding is, what I find is it is in those open centers. And it can be a combination of those, but it tends to be people typically with a pattern of having that open solar plexus, where you're absorbing that, that emotion, open will center where you're absorbing the agenda, and the open root center where you're like, having to do all the things to prove yourself worth your nervous system is off kilter. But in essence, it is the person who just takes on the weight of the world, you know, like soaks and all that information is highly sensitive. And I think it's important to be trained to know that you are in order to grow in your strength for your boundaries, because that's where we get into trouble with these narcissists who prey on us and you can be highly successful, you don't have to be like always sobbing at the time, you can be highly sensitive and successful. And these certain people, they see your light, they see that you have deep compassion for them. So essentially, if you don't have those boundaries, then you'll let them get away with whatever they want. Because you continue to have this deep sense of like, oh, well, I can see their inner child I know how they're feeling I see their trauma right. And so then we write we write all these excuses. And I'm like, Cool, my work is done. I don't have to write any excuses and manipulate and gaslight you at the beginning. You know, because you see me and they they need that as well. They are seeking a healer.

Speaker 1 9:32

They are and I don't see they are broken. That's true. I mean, yeah, narcissists, narcissists are broken. The narcissist in the hurt people hurt people phrase and the narcissism is something a strategy or a set of strategies that is used to be in response to, you know, the trauma that they experienced. It's like, I think 100% of the time and of course, we all have some set or form of trauma, no matter how perfect you know, someone's family life may have been just trauma is simply when when someone or when an entity, and particularly, it's pretty easy for a child to receive a sensory input that is too much to process in that moment, and therefore it gets crystallized in the nervous system and in the body and in the psyche. And that's trauma. narcissists have that as well in this is how and by the way, narcissism is a spectrum. There are many different brands, we aren't therapists who can really diagnose people, we're talking about our personal experiences and identifying the these certain kinds of skills that were used to us, right. In certain relationships. I feel like that's, I

: 10:39

know, we can call them toxic people, we can call them broken people. But essentially, the ultimate thing is that they have this hurt, they're seeking that light, you are the light, you have the compassion, yet, they're not introspecting or taking responsibility as they should, that we are always constantly typically the empath is constantly introspecting reevaluating. Did I do this wrong, what's happening, like what's in the situation, and that's our superpower. But at the same time, with people who don't take responsibility, it can be used as a weapon against us.

: 11:15

Weapons, I'm saying skills and strategies to try to soften it, but weapon is a great word for it.

: 11:22

I mean, with true NPD it truly is very cunning. Yes,

: 11:28

she's referring to narcissistic personality disorder. This is a proper disorder that is in the dice, dice, Diagnostic Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. And then there is again, a spectrum of someone being narcissistic, and using narcissistic tools and cycles, and maybe they don't fall into the diagnoseable place of it. But I gotta say to that, I graduated from Mind Body psychology degree, and it's the program it's the second year at HMI College of hypnotherapy. And the program is all taught by both working therapists as well as and they're also, you know, professors are also instructors. There wasn't a lot of narcissism, it was a little bit, but it's because they don't have a lot of experience treating narcissists, they rarely wind up in therapy. Yeah, it's very rare for me, yeah, it's hard to hit rock bottom, the way that society is right now, it kind of has that big, narcissistic, you know, the conditioned conditioning that we have, you know, have the not self conditioning, we would say, in human design as a collective, it really leads to narcissism. So I would love to hear what some of the things are that you found in the human design model of the vulnerabilities. You mentioned open or undefined centers,

: 12:44

which yes, they are. Yeah, what I'm finding is, of course, the open centers are the easiest, and for me, the the most conditioned area that the narcissist get to you. So again, if you're always what walking on eggshells feeling, like you're responsible for their emotions, that is an unconscious way of living through your open solar plexus. And you have to become aware of that and go, Okay, this is not my circus, not my monkey like this, this is not something that I started, you brought this energy in, you're mad at me, and you're projecting onto me. And now I'm starting to absorb it, like it really is mine. And then I really, this is my emotion, and also that I'm at fault. So there's sometimes there's a combination, right? That at fault, like, Oh, it's my fault, that starts to be the open will center, I'm actually buying into that sales pitch. And that BS like, Ooh, I'm, I'm starting to believe that it was my fault when I was just sitting here minding my own business, doing whatever I was doing, and they've walked in and they've, you know, threatened me or assaulted me or proclaim that I did something to them that I didn't.

: 14:00

And then there's a covert narcissist who will invoke a guilt by being very weak and very broken and very hurt. To one of the part of that strategy might be like, you know, Oh, I'm so broken and hurt and you've hurt me. Because you, you know, you set a boundary with me. That's not to say, you set a boundary with me and it's hurt me. And then you go, okay. Oh, you know what? I'm sorry. And they go well, thank you. Thank you for being sorry, you know, we don't know i said I'm sorry as a high road thing.

: 14:30

I wrote to him I literally just had a conversation like this. I was like, so my responsibility in this vicious cycle is this. What's yours? And it was a like, and then they diverted the conversation to something totally like they didn't answer it, but they got out of the answer with their you know, word charm and talking about this and how they trans logic Yeah, try like those those I feel statements and stuff don't work with the covert narcissist they just know don't take responsibly Don't feel like Oh, that's great. You feel that but I feel this and it's not like, I feel let's move forward. It's I feel this I'm the victim and they go on and on about how they're the victim and

: 15:10

covert narcissist. And just to put a finer point on it for some people, it's also called the vulnerable narcissist. So it really puts up a smokescreen about how could this person possibly be more narcissistic? They're so vulnerable. There's so hurt, man or that perfect

: 15:28

out in the world? Yeah, that's right. Citizen.

: 15:32

You know what I was listening to some of your podcasts and videos. And I didn't I guess it didn't really dawn on me because it's my my, one of the main things that has been used by three very clear narcissistic relationships with narcissists, you know, that polarity that they compel or manipulate the sensitive or the empath with the other person who is the polar there to do all of the work. And so that because they opt out and be I don't really love the word lazy, but that's what it that's the best. I mean,

: 16:06

yeah. Or they're entitled, right mine when I was in that relationship was entitled, everything was given to him. Even his job was not even through an actual stranger, as an employee was family, like, everything was given money was just washed through. And I was like, Really, I was the only one who had a real job. But yeah, it was always like, the expectation is set. And it's almost like we subconsciously as MPs also take on, I'm a six, two. So I'm already you know, the role model is already taking on the weight of the world. And I'm like, Well, I'm also going to take on the responsibility of everything else. So I cooked I cleaned, I did the laundry, I, you know, made sure the house was tidy. And I worked a full time job. And I exercise and I made sure I didn't gain too much weight. And there's all these things that were expected out of these different conversations like like, even I would make sure to go get my nails done. Like he would say, you know, real woman or classy woman, I forget what adjective you use, but it was ordered. Right? It's pretty disgusting. Either way, or that real woman right? And he would use his mom's example and I would always look up to her. Like always have their nails manicured, never chose it's highly offensive, and you're a horrible human being if your nails are chipped, and I'm like, Okay, I'll make sure my nails aren't chipped. Like it was just this weird, like, I don't want to be discussing and a horrible human being to you. So I'll make sure my nails are always looking good. And

: 17:33

then I'm gonna string and then you can make it your own. Because we're like, you know what actually do like having my nails done. So it's nice. You know, like you said,

: 17:40

right? You started to justify it. Yeah. And you twist your own brain around, you start to gaslight, your own self, you're like, oh, yeah, this totally is what I want to do on my day off is to even get my nails done, which I can be doing other things.

: 17:52

Oh my gosh. So I, I, the way that that happened to me where I was doing all of the work, and two of the ones that were in my adult life, because I had an there was a head of household in my childhood. That was narcissists. Definitely NPD you know, definitely, I mean, of course, I'm not a therapist, but this person has passed now. So, you know, whatever. It's my story as well as someone else's. But the point is, the ones in my adult life, both of these people would say, well, because you're so good at it, you're better at that than I am. And meanwhile, task by task by task in these partnerships, were relegated to my side to where there was nothing being done. But it had to be done. Because we there were, you know, survival. One was a business relationship. One was a life partner kind of situation. And the business relationship, we had made promises to customers and everything. So it had to be done. And it was just like, not done if I didn't do it. And I and then there you're in a cycle. And even though even when I realized and the first thing I realized was like I'm being codependent is right, it's still, it's still takes time to pack up and get out. Right? When

: 19:03

there's so many things attached, there's so many chords, there's so many obligations, you know, there's all these different things and intertwined it is really hard to detach all that. And when you start to try a boundary or say like, Hey, like, take the weight of the work, like I can't be doing all of this work. They'll make an excuse so they'll start to put it back on you and they'll always find a way to get out of it. So then you're like, Well, it's a waste of energy to even have a conversation so you just go on and you do it which is also not healthy but you're stuck

: 19:34

anything any and or you'll get an abusive you know, conversation like you will find yourself if you even try to set a boundary or request something then you get torn down somehow. And yeah, it whether it's directly or passive aggressively it just it's does end up feeling like it's too painful to do it than to just do the work and it becomes impossible. And I want to highlight what you You said that successful people and healthy people, because this actually came up in a conversation that I had with someone about two weeks ago, I walked through this, this job opportunity, a little bit of a gig. That was part time and I walked right out of it. So I was like, oh, narcissism flying around here at the top of this company, and yeah, but all of the coworkers were lovely people, beautiful people, I was only there five weeks, six people in one department quit. And that was a person who'd been there six years, one person, three years, one person two months, like they all and I was like, You know what? I was already smelling it like on day one. So I'm going to exit. So one person who had been there for six years, and we were we kind of made fast friends, like the moment that we met. And again, and she's happened to say, like, there's such beautiful people that work there. They're like, lifelong relationships. But there's so much abuse from the top. And, and then she was talking about, I don't know why I left, I left and went back a couple of times. And what lessons was that? And I was like, listen, wow, predators prey on healthy prey. You know, the, the lion wants to get the healthiest gazelle. That's just the nature of predator of predatorial. You know, food feeding. And so yeah, it's not. But that is something in a recent video that you were just talking about, where you had a guest, who was leaning a little bit more to the, I guess, blaming the victim saying, No, you're it's not really abuse?

: 21:25

Oh, yes. Yeah, I actually made a second follow up. And I was like,

Unknown Speaker: 21:29

I've grown. I know,

Unknown Speaker: 21:31

I know. Did you Oh, that's when he listened

: 21:32

to the original, because I liked your follow up too much.

: 21:36

Okay, yeah, I'm sorry if I sabotage it for that guest. But I was like, I just have to speak up. And unfortunately, this is what happens when we're impasse. And we're conditioned and trained to not speak up, is that you freeze in those moments? And I'm like, Did she really just say that, like, my whole audience now is like, feeling alienated? Like, we experienced abuse. And she was only saying, like, if you're kidnapped, and you're like, locked up, that's abuse, everything else is not an abuse. And I was like, what did she just say? Yeah, so yeah, it's really difficult. You can't you can't blame your the victims. And it's, it's a very insidious abuse that truly is abuse, and they're working, to have coercive abuse actually be something in in the courts to be able to, to wreak be recognized. And,

: 22:24

you know, I, I again, I didn't listen to the original episode. And I wonder if this person is in as part of their journey of, of healing from some abuse, feeling like, I want to be empowered. And so I don't want to, I don't want to only identify as a victim. I get that. Yeah, read it. I

: 22:42

mean, but in the same interview, which was really interesting with her is that her parents were narcissistic. And she's like, I excuse everyone else, they're all lovely, but not my parents, because they, they're ultimately responsible. And I was like, Well, I do agree with that. So like, she was very contradictory about what she was saying. And, but I love that too, because there is an and that's the complexity about being a human being is that, you know, these things are not acceptable. And they are victims, right? narcissists should not treat people that way. Right? And they are abused. And yes to the answer. The comment in here is, yes, they constantly are narcissistic people are victims, they play the victim, and they don't empower themselves or grow to get out of being a victim. And they use that victim, you know, I guess, playing card to get out of whatever responsibility we're trying to level them up into, and to grow. They don't they don't want to grow. It's too scary. It's too painful. They're too lazy, whatever their motivation is. They, yeah, they always play the victim.

: 23:47

And this is a comment from Debbie, who's here. Hello, Debbie. That says it seems most narcissistic people have a victim mentality and nothing is ever their fault. Yes, this is correct, Debbie, we completely agree. And like I mentioned earlier, one of the narcissistic relationships that I had, when we would have a disagreement, aka when this person would

: 24:09

lash out at me, okay, you're trying to share with them that they hurt you? Yeah,

: 24:13

oh, or I'm not going to do all of the things but, you know, whatever it is said no. And I would go and do my inner work. And I would be like, okay, when there's a disagreement, let's both find a way to take responsibility. And I would say I'm sorry that I react because also I probably did like React, you know what I mean? I got I got defensive and I got I got in fight flight. And then this person is getting us into that mode, though. Yeah. And this person would say, well, thank you for that. nevers never doing their part of expect now, the same relationship. This person, Miss was a business relationship, grossly mishandled the business for over a year and put me in spontaneously This is what actually I'm not going to say anything more, you know, a big surprise, not the kind that reflectors like that, Oh, guess what? This money has been mishandled and it's all on your plate and this person and I was like, I can't believe oh my god, wow, you know what I mean? And by bringing any of my response to this very difficult situation this person said, I think that you're not taking your responsibility in this my responsibility of you miss handling our business funds. Well, you could have asked I could have asked if you are Miss handling my

: 25:34

like what how would that be a thought that would come into your head to ask that just

: 25:39

like again that the nuances of not taking responsibility that can happen? And we just say anything to get out of it? Totally. Tiffany says mother in law's narcissistic and I just found out she's a projector. Oh, it Tiffany is also a projector. I know Tiffany. And at first I was like, kind of offended. Or thing I get it. I know. Right? But no. Yeah, looking at things to the HD lens. It's and I know because I've had I've looked at that too. It is not relegated to any particular part. Like there are a generator there. I heard people say oh, one three profiles have a tendency be narcissistic. I'm like, No, we can't say that.

: 26:17

No, no, I think every single type can be prone to it. We all have our shadows. I think the narcissist it was born with this beautiful design that we all were and then socially conditioned to be stuck in their shadow like every gate and I don't know if you're into the gene keys but every gate

: 26:35

I've got nighttime in three places too so that and the shadow of 19 is codependency.

: 26:43

But if you're aware, then you can work on it and you can learn and like live through the lesson of it. Yeah, that's the thing is a narcissist is stuck in their shadow and yeah, project, you can have a narcissist, any type of narcissist, any profile?

: 26:57

What about the splits, because my husband's single definition. And I have noticed through our relationship that he's, in my estimate, pretty invulnerable, like he isn't very vulnerable to narcissistic relationships, at least one on one, maybe by society and everything. And you know, because there's just no way we could call that conditioning. But he seems to be really neutral in it in both codependency and narcissism, whether he, you know, in himself and in the relationships that show up. And he has single definition. And so I think maybe the split definition,

Unknown Speaker: 27:32

what's his inner authority? He's a projector.

: 27:34

So it's Oh, his authority is emotional. So yeah, so he has that emotional fortitude as well for himself. Yeah. Really, his own in his open centers are only a sacral, throat, Asha and head. So those are some other reasons why, however, what about split definitions? Would you call that a vulnerability to narcissistic pairing?

: 27:58

I think, yes, I truly do think so depending again, on how much you're investing in your mental health and your growth. So split definition is you only have one group talking to each other. So even though he has the emotional, he has to go through one cycle. And he's got it. He knows his intuition. And it's quick. For the ones who have split, you take, you know, you have a little bit more time you have two groups talking to each other. And then you can use me as an example, I have triple splits. So I have three voices in my head going, Oh, but what about this? Or what if this? Oh, but he's so kind or Oh, we remember when he did this. So oh, you know, he was really hurt as a child. So there's too many voices too much time. And then the Narcissus just overrides that narrative and you're like, forget it, right? If you're not within your own power, then you're not going to have your own voice in your head, right?

: 28:48

They say and I have no entities inside me. So they say it's like having two entities or three entities inside you. You're saying voices. That's what I've heard. That's what it feels like, for split definitions of various types. And there's quad split, there's triple quad and just split meaning like you just have the two are their single definition, which I think that I like the way you said it. My husband goes through one cycle, and he's got it. And then he has a lot of good definition in areas that I mean, he's conditioned by that sacral to work too much, you know? Yeah. But

: 29:21

that's about it. He just has to be very careful about where he puts his energy and not to feel like he can shoot off to the moon and back in one day. Yeah, that was

: 29:30

that's literally the conversation we had this morning. He's like I had a breakthrough. I shouldn't try to just do a whole creative cycle in one day just for the sake of doing it and one day and you just said the moon, the moon and back.

: 29:43

So intuitive. My daughter is a projector and she as she's getting into her double digits. It's really interesting to watch. It's definitely an experiment when you have human design to start watching the people in your life going Oh, wow. Yeah.

: 29:54

Like she had just, I had something that dawned on me today because I'm five one And I love bombing, I think, is very insidious for a five line because we're, we're accustomed to getting projections. The five line is the one that receives projections and we're accustomed to getting projections. And that's how I think, especially love bombing, when I was beginning to recover from narcissistic abuse, I was like, I don't remember being loved bombed, really, because I don't remember taking it in. But maybe that's because I'm not I'm accustomed to not taking in projections deeply. But it's still like, and so I think they come around and other ways in, in both of my, these adults with narcissistic relationships, they they promoted me in our relationship to a high position really quickly. Like they said, You're my best friend, or, you know, I feel meant to be with you that kind of stuff. And I was like, Oh, okay. You know, while it didn't define me, it convinced me that I had to be partners with this person very quickly. And it's almost

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