Episode 38

How to Free Yourself from a Destructive Relationship with a Narcissist

Published on: 19th March, 2023
 “ I thought improving meant being more valuable, which meant being more desirable and financially successful, which would ultimately lead to all the things that could make me happier: abundance, love, connection, actualization, and impact.”

And in this episode we cover how to gain your power back as empaths if you are struggling with overcoming anger, resentment, and injustice..

Here are some key moments:

  • A different take on narcissism - narcissistic image
  •  Narcissistic supply and objectification and the conflict that creates with empaths.
  • How to get out of being stuck in this toxic cycle?

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38. Andrew Daniel How to free yourself from a destructive relationship with a narcissist



a trauma informed spiritual mentor, certified meditation teacher, and human design expert. I'm empowering empaths three times a week in recovery and healing from narcissistic abuse, childhood trauma through human design, self-care, mindfulness advice, and expert interviews. This is season five

Episode 30. 38.






Our guest today, Andrew Daniel. Expands upon this uncomfortable topic of recognizing the elephant in the room of about your narcissistic avatar traits and taking a responsibility for your own shadow. This truly is key. He and I agreed to getting unstuck from the destructive cycle of either being stuck in that victim mentality where you just want revenge and you rehash the past.

And getting unstuck from that relationship with the narcissist and stop perpetuating the cycle

and learning how to get your power back and move forward and feel free and thrive. He is an award-winning and international bestselling author and director at the Center of Symatic Development. His SYMATICS workshops are held internationally from New York to London, Tuscan to Switzerland, helping professionals see the elusive patterns that hold them back.

This methodology leads the world in a cinematic movement, diagnostics and advanced intuition development, integrating approaches from embodiment, shadow work, therapy, and spirituality. His book, awakened Your True Self, is a Golden Nautilus book awards recipient and number one Amazon bestseller in the US and uk.

So many beautiful credentials and he certainly was a pleasure to talk to. So let's dive into the conversation.

Hey Andrew, thank you for being here.



Like, what the heck happened? And in your mind kind of went into a deeper dive into how to find yourself being unstuck. So share with us a bit about that journey.


I was likely em empathic and I just had no context for it. Had no idea what that was about. I'm just like, I just want to love people. And I had warts on my fingers. And so when I was really young, I had warts on my fingers, and that sort of set the stage for a lot of bullying, a leper sort of story archetype that played through an undesirable and unwanted, which set the stage for, you know, from first grade on.

And so that set me on this whole self-help transformational journey. The part that I talk about in the book that you're referring to is way, way far. Along on that journey where I had learned all this stuff, I was healing, I learned spiritual concepts, I was learning these secrets. I was really having a lot of breakthroughs.

My life wasn't reflecting it. So I had all this internal wisdom and knowledge, and then I started to, to teach it. I was, I had this publishing deal and I thought it, I thought I had it made. I'm like, finally I did it. Like this is huge. And then I, yeah, a few months later I was homeless and that set me on this downward spiral and, a journey to really.

Doing, what we, we would consider shadow work to really go into the deepest, darkest, darkest parts of myself to start healing and loving from that. And one of the things in that journey, that brings me here to your show is my own narcissism. So I learned a lot. Narcissism by seeing it in myself first.

And so through my own discovery and learning of narcissism for my own healing journey that sort of set, the foundation for, the aspects of that I teach in my book. It's not the whole book, but it's one chapter in it where I talk about, a different way. To look at narcissism, and especially for me, my own narcissism that I had no idea was there.


Like I wouldn't ever label myself as a narcissist, but there are certainly. Egoic self-preserving unhealthy traits that kind of put the, the thorns out, which is what a narcissist does all the time. But , I wanted to read a quote before we dive into that, cuz we're gonna delve even deeper into that.

I want your viewpoint is on narcissism. I wanted to read this quote cuz it really resonated with me and this is how I was blind to my own. This quote from your book, it says, I thought improving meant being more valuable, which meant being more desirable and financially successful, which would ultimately lead to all the things that could make me happier, abundance, love, connection, actualization, and impact.

I know I can relate. I'm sure our listeners and path you can relate. What is the moment that made you realize that this wasn't what brought you happy?


And so the things that I talked about in that passage. That self-improvement, it came from not an investment in myself, but an investment in my image. And this is what I would call the narcissistic image. And contrary to a lot of maybe mainstream ideas of what we hear, the narcissist is in love with himself.

Right? This is, this is a very generic, I, I'm sure you and your audience , understand it goes so much deeper than that. But in the mainstream world, that's kind of what we hear. You know, this, you're narcissistic, you're just in love with yourself.



You can then put this image out into the world and maybe that'll be lovable. Maybe that image will be enough. And then so just. And I love this in modern society because it's the perfect analogy. A social media profile, a virtual avatar, right? You build up this. Instagram profile of what you think people would find lovable about you, what would get you approval?

What would get you attention, what would make you enough? And so we do the same thing psychically, energetically, mentally in our own life. And so we build up this image in order to be enough to be lovable in the world, however, However, back to that passage that you quoted, I realized that that image isn't real, and nothing real is truly lovable.

You can't love something that doesn't exist, and these images of ourself do not exist. Their ideas, they're concepts. And so I realized I was spending all of this time, all of this work, all of this energy building up this image in order to be lovable. Just to find out that it took me further from my true self.

It took me further away from who I really was because, well, when. You build an image and you worship this and focus on this and give this all your love and attention, and then have that be the thing that you want other people to do. It creates this barrier. It creates this distance between. Who you really are and who you're presenting.

And so we think that's gonna give us what we want, but ultimately it does the opposite because even if somebody falls in love with the image, even if somebody likes this narcissistic image that we're putting out, We know at the deepest, deepest, deepest levels, that's not 100% exactly who we really are.

And then, so the imposter syndrome feeling like a fraud comes up, the fear of being found out comes up. All of these things start happening and we don't feel truly seen. So this image is seen, but not who we really are. And so it just starts to cre, fester and create a suffering even though we have the best intentions.

Become more lovable.


And this can happen with the narcissist and this is where we feel and we really experience that. As an empath who's trying to help the other person. We see them, we see their, their inner child, we see their vulnerabilities. But then that can also happen when you're coming out of it and it's, it's just such a, I feel like it's like walking on, a wire, right?

Like a, a balancing on a wire between being vulnerable, connecting with ourselves, listening, but not being. Abused and listening to the wrong thing, right? Cause a narcissist is telling you all these things and you're so open to it, you're like, yes, you're right. I should do this. I was like, no. Like he needs to take responsibility too.

And so, yeah, it's a really interesting dance of like, how do I be,


We have a big heart that wants to help and sees the best in people, and we're unwilling. To set and enforce these boundaries. We have some judgment that, well, it's wrong. We should, you know, maybe we martyr ourself. You know, all of these things come up to kind of little voices that say, you know, don't set a boundary, for, for various reasons.

And so I find. If we can develop that discernment and enforce those boundaries and understand that we're not being mean, we're not being heartless, we're not being not compassionate. It's incredibly self-compassionate. It's incredibly self respectful. It's incredibly self-loving to set boundaries and to not get sucked in to someone who's abusing. And in order to do that though, we have to have that self-awareness. What are our ties? How do we get hooked in? What's our shadow material to get pulls into it? Maybe we're compensating, maybe we're martyring ourself. Maybe we've abandoned ourselves to be loved and approved, through our life. And so that's where the narcissistic. energies come in and latch onto those parts of ourselves. And then without those boundaries and that self-awareness, that's what leads to the abuse. But being able to walk that li yeah, being able to walk that line. After setting the boundaries, after having that healing and that discernment, that vulnerability is a huge gift.

It's the vulnerability in the correct context. It's not no vulnerability and shutting down because then you lose intimacy and connection. It's also not wearing that on your sleeve and being vulnerable to everything, even the abusive stuff, because then you're gonna get hurt. It's. and having the discernment and the boundaries to feel safe in oneself.

And when you're safe and secure and you trust in yourself, then that extends out to the space and the people in the space. And then you, then you're surrounded by trustable safe people. And in that context, yes, surrender yes yourself. Be vulnerable to have that connection with somebody. Else who is also do doing the same thing, but with a narcissist or or running this narcissistic image it on purpose.

Prevents intimacy. You cannot, and this is one of the thing empaths struggle with a lot when they're with someone like this, they're craving that intimacy. They're open, they're there, but with that narcissistic image, they won't let it in. They won't let themselves be vulnerable. That that image is a shield of sorts.

And so having that understanding and awareness, maybe we're doing it ourselves, maybe someone else is doing it, but understanding that dynamic can really save us a lot of pain and suffering.




, how do we get used to that? Right? That's like a cycle we give and they.


So we all have different masks in certain ways. We, we take on certain roles, but this is really when we, I start identifying with that image, as more lovable than us. And so that's, that's the narcissistic image. So, objectification and narcissistic supply go hand in hand. So let's start with object. And this is where the narcissist will turn a real living human being into an object in order to use. So what does that mean? Well, People are people. They're not objects you can't use people, you use objects, people you have to relate to. You're in relationship with. You have intimacy with all of these kind of things that. are different than objects. Objects don't have feelings. You don't have to be concerned about them. When you pick up this, this cup, I'm not like, well, did you wanna be picked up? What do you feel about this? You know, what are your concerns? What are your needs? What needs do I meet of yours?



Meet each other's needs, communicate, check in, feel all of this stuff. And so in order to advance the narcissist agenda, in order to, feed the egoic image, it needs a supply. And so, When we talk about, narcissistic supply, it's essentially all of those objects, all of those people that have been turned into objects through the distortion, of the narcissist.

Then he uses them to meet his needs, and so this comes into a fundamental principle. Of my view of narcissism is that when we're doing this, or the narcissist is doing this, they are unwilling to be vulnerable. They seek control. However, they still have needs. Right. They're not sociopaths. So they do feel people, but they don't want to because that means they will are gonna hurt 'em if they use them.

So they have to turn people into objects, they have to objectify people. And so because they do that and they're unwilling to feel vulnerability, unwilling to be in that vulnerable place. They r they instead of letting other people in to meet their needs, right? Opening up, being vulnerable, saying, Hey, this is what's going on for me.

This is where I'm at. This is my vulnerable thing. I need help. And letting the person in and trusting them and surrendering them, surrendering to them in order to meet their needs instead of doing that, which requires vulnerability and risk, right? What they'll do is that they'll use the other person to meet their own needs, right?

So instead of opening. Maybe I'm doing this. If you're listening, I'm, I'm opening my hands. I'm showing this open posture and letting somebody in, being vulnerable, that's the way to do it. Instead of doing that, they're closed. They have the image, they then go outwards and use the object to then bring it back themselves to meet their needs.

So they're quote unquote, meeting their needs. Without the risks and downsides of being vulnerable, but also without the upsides of intimacy and love and connection and surrendering , you know, and all of the things that make work life worth living and wonderful. So this



You feel like philanthropic. You feel generous when you do this for a narcissist, you're. I, eh, , just like you said, you're like, eh, I mean, I'm, I, it's nice to help this person, but I, I kind of feel less than, rather than greater than from that interaction.


You're like, Ooh. Big red flag. Big red flag.



that one's such a

hard thing to get your head around, especially if it's a family member. For me, it took a really, really, really long time










And that's when the real healing start starts to happen because we say, oh gosh, yeah, my father was abusive, or My mother abandoned me. And so. I developed this survival strategy, didn't even realize it, that I am needing this validation and approval and connection, and this is just the same dynamic that I had with my parents.

This is the same thing that's happening, and so being able to go in and seeing that wound and healing that , , you won't even need to start. All these boundaries because it's just you, you're just not gonna be that hook , is not there. And so they'll find someone else to pray on.


Which is a bit of that narcissistic image. I always want to feel needed, and that goes back. Childhood wounds of not being loved or liked or all the things right? , just like that quote I read, being someone who is needed validates my existence versus just me being me validates my existence.

And it was, it was a big aha moment and a hard one to come to, but it's that beautiful.


And this is a, another topic I talk about in the book is about the victim mentality.



What I'm referring to about the victim mentality is a chronic, consistent image of self as being a identified as a victim. And just like with the narcissism, it's like you. Have narcissistic traits, but it doesn't make you a narcissist. You can have things happen to you outside of your control without it defining you as a helpless victim.



Definitely not. They are completely responsible for their abuse and their part, and we're also responsible for how we showed up and w what we bring to the table. And so when we can start looking at that with a really honest and. Courageous lens, we can start seeing the places that we can start healing.

And so that healing comes from taking accountability and responsibility for either how we created the situation or if that's too far, how we continue to keep that alive, how we respond to these situations in our life. And I found. Whether it's politically correct or not, whether it's, nice and friendly or whatever, that the more responsibility we do take, the more empowered we become, even if it seems outrageous that just the willingness to take responsibility anyway, reclaims our.

So the responsibility is the way to reclaim the power that we've unknowingly given away to somebody else, or the idea of somebody else or the situation. And so it doesn't absolve the other person or change anything about the circumstance. What it does is it gives us the power and the ability to make a new choice..

To live a new life, to actually change how we feel in our situation in the world. And that's the most important part , that we reclaim our power and we can choose a new destiny. We don't have to stay a perpetual victim. We can make a new choice, take responsibility, and show up in the world in a new way.

And that is going to. I would consider the, the outcome, the way out of the healing process.


I try and be in there to



And she stole your credit card and she did this. And how could a mother do be so horrible? Correct? How could a mother be so horrible, however, I have a couple things that you could have done in hindsight to take power back in your life. Is check your bank account regularly. Couple every couple days or once a week if you see strange activity happening in there and start to hide or lock away your wallet.

Number one would be a thought, right? Like there's different things that you can take responsibility moving forward, start , making money, get a job that pays. Protect your assets so that eventually you can move out, right? These are all things versus feeling like you need to get revenge.

Taking her to court, which really won't hold up because the judge will be like, well, why did you not hide your wallet? Like, why did you let her steal it? Da, da, da, da, take back your power without that negative revenge. , this is the aspect what I'm trying to illustrate, like how to take back the power and how to apply your responsibility, which, like you said, Andrew, it's very hard.

That's why I'm sure some people are being triggered right now, like, how could you even, how could you even say this? Her mother was so horrible. But what I see on the outside, what I see on this farther end of the spectrum, Out where I now don't really claim that I'm a victim. I just am a survivor of narcissistic abuse because I take responsibility from our part of how I let him treat me.

. That's triggering too. But I did stay for very specific reasons, like you had stated, my narcissistic image fed into his negative narcissistic. and we kind of tangled like that for a while until I started to wake up. So I guess what I'm trying to express is there's a way to see your responsibility in it, and that is the way to gain your power back.

Cuz she's gonna sit there all day and talk about how she needs to contact a lawyer and how does she get her money back? It's like she's looking back, right? You can't get that money back. Look forward. How do you get the money now? How do you move out now? How do you get separated?


You have the power to, you can't change your mom. You know, you Yeah. Should, you know, should she be loving and all of this stuff? And honest, absolutely. Like it's terrible. However, Y, good luck changing her. Right? Good luck, ch. Good luck changing or rescuing anybody. You have the most power in control with yourself and your choices.

So it's not about victim blaming, it's not about feeling sorry for herself. It's not about revenge it. It's about how do we actually take the power back so we can have a great life so we don't get hurt again, so we don't get taken advantage of again, without closing. Because that's, that's one of the keys.

Some people will find a way to protect themselves, but they'll shut out love. They'll shut out other people. They'll create walls and barriers. Their heart will be closed off again. And if you're an empath and you shut off feeling and you close yourself off from all of that connection, you're gonna get sick.

Like, like that's, that's like, you know, not feeling yourself or other people. Is the, the death to an empath. And so how do you heal from this so you can love and be remain open with the discernment, with the boundaries, learning the lessons, taking your power back, and being able to live a life moving forward where that stuff doesn't happen again.

And then you can be an example for other people and that's , how you can change. That's how you. Help and heal others is by being that example, your yourself first, rather than being co-dependent or rescuing or getting back or any of that stuff.






Five ways to rebuild your life after narcissistic abuse and rise up from Echoism. So if you wanna dive into this topic a little bit more with my solo teachings and my opinions about this, go ahead and listen to episode 19.

I am so grateful for you listening, finding the show, and sharing it with your. It would give a great boost in the heart center to algorithm to rate and review this podcast. If you are enjoying it, take a screenshot, share it on your socials, share it in a text message to a friend that you know right now needs to be pulled out of the quicksand.

And remember, always key. You're you unique, light shining.

Losing time, I'll fade in fast. I just wanna make it last. Try to let go of the past. I close my eyes. Embrace the blast. Sleepless nights and headache stuff, restlessness to hell and back. What's my purpose? But do I grab a slippery resu surface, a heart attack? Sometimes you just gotta something that'll give you relief.

What we're broken. It's tragic. We're not all elastic, but maybe there's magic. Believe you could.

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About the Podcast

Empath And The Narcissist: Healing from Trauma & Abuse with Human Design
Empowering empaths in recovery & healing from narcissist abuse through Human Design, and spiritual growth
You experience a major betrayal when you are lied to and cheated on by a narcissist. So now what do you do??? ...
We address this and more in the Empath and Narcissist podcast: Spiritual Healing from Trauma & Abuse for Empaths.

It is Empowering you to shift from being on the emotional rollercoaster, to thriving and helping others.

You will get messages to your soul three times a week, in recovery & healing from narcissist abuse and childhood trauma through Human Design, self care, mindfulness advice, and expert interviews.

So if you are ready to shift from survivor to thriver then hit follow and listen to regain your sparkle back after narcissistic abuse

And listen to S5 Ep. 10: Are Narcissists Master Manipulators or Idiots? to start

"When it comes to the story of your life, let no one else hold the pen."

Your host: I'm Raven, a Narcissist abuse survivor, Author, Podcaster, Certified Meditation Teacher and Human Design Reader. More than 10 years later I now am a happily married mom of two, and passionate about preventing people from entering into toxic relationships and helping victims leave and overcome the pain from narcissist abuse.

Healing from PTSD, emotional abuse, havoc on your self worth from the narcissist requires months to years of self care, eft tapping, inner child meditation, self care, self discovery, journaling, and support in therapy from professionals and coaches.
This show is energetically educating on narcissism, self improvement and emotional intelligence.

Topics covered: Narcissism Disorder Education, Spirituality, Signs of Toxic Relationships, and healing through Self Discovery with Human Design.

- Post Betrayal TRAUMA with DR. DEBI SILBER
- Emotional Freedom Techniques for healing from Trauma of Narcissistic Abuse
-The Solution to Narcissistic Abuse Lies Deeper than the Surface

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Raven Scott

Raven Scott is a survivor of an abusive relationship with a narcissist. From people pleaser to kick ass author, podcaster, & mentor, she is a certified meditation teacher and Destiny Coach. She teaches you how to shed people-pleasing patterns one step at a time to find your power & potential through healing so you can kick ass in THIS life. Her focus is to help you tune into your soul’s healing, learning & purpose with intuition, meditations, North Node Medicine & Human Design. Join her in soul-filled podcast community on Facebook. Women Empaths Self Development to Unlock Your Destiny